Talk:Bill Clinton

Bill Clinton

Current talk page

Archive 1

Article Checklist for "Bill Clinton"

Workgroup category or categories	Politics Workgroup, History Workgroup, Topic Informant Workgroup [Categories OK]
Article status	Developing article: beyond a stub, but incomplete
Underlinked article?	No
Basic cleanup done?	Yes
Checklist last edited by	Versuri 10:25, 25 June 2007 (CDT)

To learn how to fill out this checklist, please see CZ:The Article Checklist.

---

Editor plan and guidelines

• A general principle of all articles about political figures: it should be impossible to determine whether the authors are supporters or opponents of the subject of the article. Citizendium is neither Democrat nor Republican.

This article talk page is now under dispute watch

See CZ:Dispute Watch. You're going to have to start using the {{prop}} template in the way that page describes, illustrated here: Talk:Oriental (word). We're testing out a dispute resolution idea, but I'm taking the test seriously. From now on, disputation on this page must be on-topic, and on-topic means (1) aimed at a specific proposition, (2) the proposition must concern the wording of the text, and (3) engaging in a dispute, as opposed to how to characterize the dispute, is off-topic. Call it the Anti-Bloviation Rule!  :-) --Larry Sanger 07:26, 3 August 2007 (CDT)

What follows is not my most passionately held belief, nor is it a particularly important issue IMHO, but it is an issue none-the-less and I'm going to try to push it through this new system to see how the system works. Will Nesbitt 06:39, 5 August 2007 (CDT)

The appropriateness of the word "brilliant" to describe any political figure.

Commented out section. Feel free to reinstate after the proposition actually makes a specific claim or proposal about the text: this one did not even constitute a full sentence. --Larry Sanger 03:27, 7 August 2007 (CDT)

Relevance

Proposition: This sentence "Clinton has become a major fundraiser and campaigner for his wife, with his special appeal to the African American vote to neutralize her main opponent, Barak Obama" is very nearly factual, but is mostly editorial. A better sentence would be: "Currently, Clinton is a major fundraiser and campaigner for his wife." With a source to support this claim."

This article is on dispute watch. This requires that all argumentation directly concern clearly-stated propositions about article wording.

A comment here was deleted by The Constabulary on grounds of making complaints about fellow Citizens. If you have a complaint about the behavior of another Citizen, e-mail constables@citizendium.org. It is contrary to Citizendium policy to air your complaints on the wiki. See also CZ:Professionalism.

the issue of the black vote is very important in Dem primary, and the experts report it as a contest between Obama and BILL Clinton. CZis not taking sides for or against any candidate here. Richard Jensen 00:43, 6 August 2007 (CDT)

I agree. The issue is important. Importance and relevance are two different things. Let's stick to relevant facts and avoid editorials at all costs. Will Nesbitt 09:53, 6 August 2007 (CDT)

Will, what's the problem at all? Why would the above be a better sentence? The original sentence is both true and uncontroversial, isn't it? --Larry Sanger 03:32, 7 August 2007 (CDT)

Experts

Commented this section out, too. Maybe you, Richard and Will, are proving that the Dispute Watch regime is a failure, but this section began with something that wasn't a clear proposition about how to change the text. It merely listed some quotations (albeit very interesting) that establish that

To comment an issue brought up here. The fact that some experts say X does not entail that CZ should state X without attribution or qualification. If there are other experts who deny or doubt X, and even if there are significant portions of the non-expert population who disagree with X, it follows that we must attribute X to the experts if we state X at all. This is our policy, and frankly, I have no idea why anyone would object to it. It's perfectly innocuous: so, say it, but then attribute it. CZ is guided by experts and it does reflect expert opinion first and foremost. But it is also guided by a neutrality policy that acts as an important qualifier of expert opinion.

Furthermore, Richard, if you as an editor in this area don't want to participate in Dispute Watch, let me know, and we will remove this article from Dispute Watch.

I will be e-mailing you individually and trust me, this time we will solve the problem permanently. --Larry Sanger 03:59, 7 August 2007 (CDT)

Larry, this succinct statement describes my understanding of the neutrality policy. Thanks for you efforts. I know this is a difficult task, but we appreciate it, even when it seems like we don't. Will Nesbitt 08:19, 7 August 2007 (CDT)

Footnote #1

That takes us down to Klein, who I assume is Joe Klein, but then the link does *not* take us to a Klein citation. Shouldn't there be a clear "Source" that tells us what the Klein reference is? I.e.,

--Sources--

• Presidents I Have Known and Scorned, by Joe Klein, Time magazine, July 4, 2005, page 24

...said Hayford Peirce (talk) (Please sign your talk page posts by simply adding four tildes, ~~~~.)

A comment was removed from the talk page here because the article is under dispute watch. The comment was not on-topic for a particular proposition. Please do see CZ:Dispute Watch for background.

the Klein reference is to his full-length book on the clinton presidency which is cited in the bibliog Klein is a top political reporter and expert on campaigns see [1] and [2] Richard Jensen 01:02, 6 August 2007 (CDT)

I'm sorely tempted to delete the above exchanges as they do not make use of {{prop}}: will you please convert them now? --Larry Sanger 22:04, 6 August 2007 (CDT)

the question was what was the ambiguous Klein reference, and I answered it (his recent book on Clinton)Richard Jensen 00:37, 7 August 2007 (CDT)

Hold off

How about no more than two propositions per person at a time? This is to keep things manageable.  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 20:03, 5 August 2007 (CDT)

The page is beginning to look hilarious:-) Probably, your two propositions per person per day should be in the rules. --Martin Baldwin-Edwards 20:06, 5 August 2007 (CDT)

I added this.  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 20:45, 5 August 2007 (CDT)