Talk:Homeopathy/Archive 13

I'd like to point out that, after the first two paragraphs, I still haven't got the faintest clue what "homeopathy" means. Those paragraphs are also extremely badly written. --Larry Sanger 11:46, 4 November 2006 (CST)

Yes, I agree. I've trimmed this article down from a very long and wandering WP original, and done some re-ordering and reference tidying, but it's still an uncomfortable hybrid. Really needs a complete write-through.Gareth Leng 11:02, 7 November 2006 (CST)

Lead?

It's been suggested (not by me) that the new CZ style might incorprate a short and simple boxed message, and that for this article, that box might contain the text:

"Homeopathy is an Alternative Medicine system that tries to treat illnesses with tiny doses of the drugs that cause the same symptom as the illness. Homeopathy is based on the ideas of Samuel Hahnemann, a 19th century physician who observed that some contemporary medicines evoked symptoms similar to those of the illnesses for which they were prescribed. There is no clear evidence to support the efficacy of homeopathic remedies, and it is likely that the reported effects are placebo effects."

Keeping this here so we can see how it looks if and when style issues advanceGareth Leng 12:25, 9 November 2006 (CST)

That would make more sense. I have been trying to track down the CZ style guide/ideas with no luck. I have seen discussion here and there but nothing concrete. Am I missing something obvious? Chris Day (Talk) 12:31, 9 November 2006 (CST)

Comments by Nancy

Let's imagine that a perosn living in X city, Y country has been advised by a friend to see a homeopath for that problem with his health he is always complaining about. Knowing that CZ is edited by experts, he looks up Homeopathy. I don't think this article, as it stands, will serve him well.

Perhaps the introduction to the article would be less misleading if it described what the current practice of homeopathy is, rather than focused on a more historical definition of its roots. I realize that this is difficult. But it has been a hundred years, plus and minus, that medical practice was divided up into allopathy, osteopathy, homeopathy etc. Often times, I read that medicine, meaning conventional medicine or western medicine is allopathy and I object every time I do. Why? Well, I believe in evolution, but not that I, personally, descended from an ape. I believe my distant ancestors had the same ancestor as the apes. That’s different, you see. Similarly I am a physician but I am no allopath. The allopath was a distant “ancestor” of my teachers., and to infer – or outright state- that current medicine is actually allopathy is frankly ridiculous. If a person was advised to see an orthopedic surgeon and they looked up "allopath" what would they learn?

http://www.op.nysed.gov/06reg.htm according to this link, New York State does not license homeopaths. Yet very few licensed physicians are homeopaths. Meaning, most therapists in New York calling themselves homeopaths are not licensed healing arts professionals. Is there any geographic region where this is not the case? Who today actually is a homeopath? What is the actual practice of homeopathy in the world, currently?

It seems to me that current homeopathy, like most practicing healing arts, draws on the empiric success of the previous generation of clinicians. This is why much of medicine is medicine and actually not ‘human biology’, even though in an idealized sense it is based on human biology. On the level of treatments, it is misleading to suggest, for example, that the physician prescribes X drug because of its proven molecular interactions with the Y receptor. In selected cases, that may be true, but generally, it is not. Let’s face it, Doctor Jones almost never is drawing molecular diagrams when considering treatment.

I have only had contact with a couple of homeopaths, but it has been the same with them. They might have been taught, or read stuff written by, practitioners who were familiar with the original theories, but their practice draws on its own clinical traditions and they don’t puzzle over it for each treatment. More often, homeopathic remedies are delivered by alternative care healers who are not strictly homeopaths.

From my reading of history and medicine, it seems that in an era when mainstreams docs were heavily advocating harsh cathartics, emetics and purges for most illnesses, homeopaths gave out remedies that were mostly water and in fact, many patients did better than when forced to vomit, or repeatedly evacuate stool.

A good homeopathic remedy is a placebo, but placebo are particularly effective if combined with positive social interactions with the healer. Many modern medical treatments are essentially placebos and some excellent physicians are quite aware of this. There is a lot to say about placebos, perhaps in a different article that could be linked to this. Writing several articles at once that link (I did that with biology) can be helpful. Regards, Nancy Sculerati MD 07:55, 7 December 2006 (CST)

addendum - the above is not formulated in a manner that really addresses the article, and I'd like to do better. Specifically, the introduction should not imply that homeopathy is a recognized current branch of medicine, Itr is not true (unless I am wrong, and if so - please correct me- that the practice of homeopathy persited in medicine. Instead, others took it up. The historical view as written in the article does imply that homeopathy is a medical specialty, because it once was. It would be helpful to actually discuss who, currently, homeopaths are. This may differ by country. For example, in Germany, where you say homeopaths are licensed - what are the requirements? Exactly? How about UK? What are the regulations for practice? Then, since many practitioners in various fields use homeopathic potions, are these regulated by any country? How? I can tell you that years ago I had these silver/mercury dental fillings removed by a fabulous dentist, who replaced them with these perfectly molded porcelain ones that reconstructed the tooth. He was, in fact, the cousin of the head of the department I was training in. He always asked me if I'd like a little of his special medicine before starting. These were homeopathic remedies, each in a wonderfully shaped and colored bottle with a truly beautiful label. I was doing my fellowship at the Childrens Hospital of Pittsburgh at the time, and we both got a kick out of the fact that I really did want him to sprinkle the stuff on my tooth, and I'd spend some time picking out my favorite at each session. I know from some of my past patient's families that such remedies are available in the US over the counter and by various therapists. Nancy Sculerati MD 10:31, 7 December 2006 (CST)

Many thanks, just the type of radical advice needed. i've taken a sharp knife to it, spinning a lot into homeopathic proving and History of Homeopathy as a start, and done some reorderingGareth Leng 11:50, 8 December 2006 (CST)

Footnotes

The footnotes appear to be slightly out of sync, in the Intro at least:

The word 'homeopathy' was first used by the German physician Christian Friedrich Samuel Hahnemann (1755-1843). Hahnemann was an eminent physician and a prominent public health reformer. He believed that his new system was more humane and effective than the conventional medicine of his time[1], but it was greeted by the establishment with derision and contempt. Today, homeopathy is not an accepted part of conventional medicine, and its theories are not generally regarded as scientifically credible, but nevertheless it has more than 100,000 practitioners worldwide, and 500 million users.[2]

[2] supports sentences 2 and 3, but not sentence 4. I would edit, but don't want to mess it up further, as I don't know which subsequent citations need moving back, or whether one is missing. Thanks, Mike Emmans Dean 10:45, 6 February 2007 (CST)

WP flag

.. is set up for the following few lines of text

• Much of the information currently known about these therapies makes it clear that many have not been shown to be efficacious.
• Its strength lies in its evident effectiveness as it takes a holistic approach towards the sick individual through promotion of inner balance at mental emotional spiritual and physical levels.
• What this investigation has unearthed is appalling.
• Complementary Medicine - Therapies Homeopathy BBCs Complementary Medicine article on Homeopathy.

--AlekStos 14:56, 17 April 2007 (CDT)

Article Checklist for "Homeopathy/Archive 13"

Workgroup category or categories	Healing Arts Workgroup [Editors asked to check categories]
Article status	Developing article: beyond a stub, but incomplete
Underlinked article?	No
Basic cleanup done?	Yes
Checklist last edited by	David Martin 22:04, 13 May 2007 (CDT)

To learn how to fill out this checklist, please see CZ:The Article Checklist.

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