Talk:Champagne

Article Checklist for "Champagne"

Workgroup category or categories	Food Science Workgroup [Categories OK]
Article status	Developing article: beyond a stub, but incomplete
Underlinked article?	Yes
Basic cleanup done?	Yes
Checklist last edited by	Derek Harkness 11:12, 5 September 2007 (CDT)

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sabrage

There are some pictures available on the reference site, but I'm trying to find some flickr ones. --Robert W King 20:32, 5 September 2007 (CDT)

Soap

Derek, is that true about the soap bit? --Robert W King 08:02, 6 September 2007 (CDT)

Yes, see [1] and I've seen it other places. A perfectly clean glass will not produce a sparkle. The microscopic particles of dirt are required to act as a nucleus for the formation of the bubbles. The same also goes for beer. If you use soap on your beer glasses, you won't get as good a head as if you rinse the glasses in soap-less water. Derek Harkness 09:18, 6 September 2007 (CDT)

That seems to be directly contrary to an article I read in the NYT a couple of weeks ago that bears out my own experience: a *really* clean glass will not generate as much head when pouring a beer as a glass that has already had a beer in it and been emptied (drunk). The bubbles need a little adhersion to gain traction, so to speak. Ditto for champagne, the article said. Lemme see if I can find it.... Hayford Peirce 11:40, 6 September 2007 (CDT)

It's not contrary, I'm saying the same thing. A really clean glass is bad if you want bubles. Derek Harkness 19:05, 6 September 2007 (CDT)

Any chance we can finda reference for this? By that I mean a scientific/more detailed explanation... --Robert W King 19:29, 6 September 2007 (CDT)

Cups, coupes and flutes

Okay, clue me in about the "tulip-shaped" glass.

I always thought that the shallow cup was the same as a coupe, and always pronounced coupe, but that it was pretentious to spell it that way, and so it's spelled "cup".

I've also been led to believe that people in-the-know now use flutes--something to do with concentrating the aroma or something--so now when I go out I see flutes way more often--even at parties--well, the up-and-coming wannabies type parties, but my feeling is that most people still associate champagne with the traditional, shallow-bowl-on-a-stem glass. Aleta Curry 17:06, 6 September 2007 (CDT)

I lived in Tahiti for a long time, where people drank *lots* of champagne but didn't talk about it much, they were too busy guzzling it. What I did read for time to time, however, and what was borne out by my own experience, is that the traditional wine glass (tulip-shaped) is superior for champagne *because* the narrower top tends to keep the bubbles in. I don't recall seeing *serious* French ppl drink champagne from the v. broad, low glasses that are commonly used in the States. The wider the glass, the faster the bubbles are dispersed. A tall, narrow flute, on the other hand, keeps the bubbles tighter and more focused. At home, I have all three, including some flutes that are no more than an inch across and are straight up and down, with no curvature at all. As I recall, my late French wife generally used these flutes if she was choosing which glasses to use. For Americans, and the general run of people, I get out the broad "champagne" glasses. For myself, I use a tulip, probably the larger size rather than the smaller, although I generally just grab whichever one is closer. "Coupe" is just the French word for the broad bowl on a stem.... Hayford Peirce 17:28, 6 September 2007 (CDT)

The glasses section may have got a little confused. Some of the names and descriptions are mixed up. To clarify what we are talking about, here is a champagne flute which I would expect to get at an English event. Here is the old style flute that was originally used (the shop has called this a Champagne Empire glass). Here is the 19th saucer shape or coupe. And here is a tulip shaped glass.

The coupe bubbles too fast and goes flat quickly, but it good for making Champagne fountains. The flute holds the bubble well but the narrow glass excludes the nose when drinking so you can't taste the wine properly. The regular tulip shaped wine glass offers a balance between the two extremes and lets you nose the wine properly. Derek Harkness 19:32, 6 September 2007 (CDT)

The overflowing champagne glass fill

can be any type of heirarchical structure; a pyramid, concentric rings--as long as you have a system in which the overflow goes directly into glasses below it without excess spill. --Robert W King 21:11, 7 September 2007 (CDT)