User talk:Howard C. Berkowitz: Difference between revisions

Revision as of 23:53, 29 July 2010

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U.S. Congress members' pages

By all means, let me know what standard sections should be included on the pages for members of the U.S. Congress. Probably a section on committee assignments. Maybe a section for voting record. If you can develop a standard template or outline for structuring such articles (such as exists for the state articles - see the article on South Dakota, for example), then I would be happy to follow that outline on any U.S. Congress members' pages on which I work. James F. Perry 23:44, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

In my recent additions to the states' Related Article pages, I have been entering the names of Senate and House members as they appear on the Senate and House web sites (http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov). This means that some of them include middle initials. If the CZ page does not include the middle initial, it will have to be taken out in order for the link to be removed. In the long run, I believe that the page name should match the name whcih the Congressperson uses on his or her official Senate or House web site. James F. Perry 02:27, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

Unfortunately, they aren't always consistent even in their own websites, or the website might be "James X. Jones" but all campaign literature refers to "Jim Jones". Howard C. Berkowitz 02:29, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

Good point. Another suggestion I have is to work from the states' Related Article pages when making definitions or lemma articles. I have found 4 mis-assigned states so far. If the states' RA pages are used, that would provide an automatic check on at least that datum. The entries into the states' RA pages are made directly from the state-by-state listing on the official House web site. I expect to complete those listings in the next day or so. James F. Perry 03:33, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

That's certainly logical. In general, however, I have been starting the entry from lists of committee or caucus members, which again aren't always consistent about names. The cross-check, however, certainly is reasonable. Howard C. Berkowitz 03:36, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

Voting ratings for Congressional personnel

I just constructed a wikitable for the Voter ratings (see the Tim Johnson page). The third column is for a Source. The Christian Coalition is referenced in the table. Their scorecard gives Johnson a 30%. Where did you get the 16% rating which you had listed?

Also, it appears that the NRA ratings are in a members-only section of their web site.

The idea is to get that table all ready to go before copying it into 435 separate pages.

James F. Perry 17:58, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

Christian Coalition was from On he Issues.

You might be interested in some more methodology. When I saw James Oberstar as a redlink, I did a text search. That gave me several "related articles" pages where he was part of an imparted list; I created the entry under Congressional Native American Caucus. He also came up on U.S. Congressional Caucuses, which is an odd topic -- many of the caucuses have no webpage or limited documentation, and the membership builds up only from the listed leaders, and people mentioning it in their biography. Howard C. Berkowitz 18:03, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

Hey Howard

Can you check this out. D. Matt Innis 23:53, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

Congresspersons: "bare bones" article

I have been developing the Stephanie Herseth Sandlin article as an example of a "bare bones" article for U.S. Congress members. Of course, the voter ratings need to be filled in and I think there may be some more Congressional Caucuses also. James F. Perry 02:46, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Kerberos

Would you have anything to add at Talk:Kerberos? Sandy Harris 13:59, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

http://scienceblogs.com/neurotopia/2009/12/homeopathy_the_basics.php

Howard, your link to sympathetic_magic fails on the above website. --Paul Wormer 15:44, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Where next on crypto articles?

What needs doing next among the crypto articles? I'm about to start a holiday, about six weeks, and likely won't do much on CZ in that time, but it would be nice to have a plan

I gave you a list of articles I thought were getting near approval some time back, User_talk:Howard_C._Berkowitz/Archive_2#Approvals.3F. Most of my questions there are still open, though block cipher has since been approved. See Talk:Cryptology and Talk:AES competition for recent comments.

History of cryptography is currently fairly meager. Is that, or perhaps History of Cryptology or History of Cryptanalysis, where the historical stuff in your old outline belongs? Are those three articles or one?

The bigger or more important articles first? I think Cryptography is near approval; what do you suggest there?. Cryptanalysis still needs work, perhaps even re-organisation. Hash (cryptography) and stream cipher need quite a bit of work, likely from someone who knows more about those than I do.

Or smaller articles first? Perhaps start with Active attack, Passive attack and their children? Sandy Harris 09:57, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Hey, Howard?

Since you're stuck in the cold without a car today, maybe you can riddle this for me:

Has there been any discussion recently about situations like Viennese Waltz where we have a definition only? Is that one of those lemming articles you were talking about? I started pondering this because at some point we were discussing having the definition show up in the article namespace if there was a definition only. Do you know what I mean? Do *I* know what I mean? Aleta Curry 00:03, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Ah, the poor lemmings. Yes, it would be nice if they showed up in the article namespace. I'm not sure if they should count as live articles. Howard C. Berkowitz 02:27, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Oh, right--good point. No, they shouldn't count as live articles. I was just wondering if we could point to a definition if there were no article. Maybe it's not such a great idea? Aleta Curry 10:33, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Maybe we need to think of terms in reclassifying articles. Let me throw out a preliminary proposal for articles:

All non-external articles
- Current legitimate articles
- Current lemma articles not ever expected to be much more than a definition, although they might have Related Articles and perhaps other subpages. The key point is that some of these articles are definitions that apply to more than three workgroups. Maybe the use of a General Workgroup would allow many of them to become "full" articles, or maybe not.
- Current lemma articles that are quite plausible to become, eventually, full articles, but are being imported as large numbers of brief definitions. For example, think of memberships in political bodies, interest groups, etc. I'm bringing in tens or hundreds of members of each when I bring them in. There may not be much more to say in the first batch. As soon as I start bringing in membership from other groups, so that a person belongs to multiple groups,
External articles (maybe also unmodified articles from WP, etc.)

Fuze??

I know the dictionary provides both "fuse" and "fuze" ... but I've always used "fuse" so your title looks strange to me. It might be interesting to hear what others think. Regards, Milton Beychok 06:01, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

What is it that seems strange? Certainly, in military engineering -- and indeed in explosives for civil engineering and the like -- the two are related. Fuse is an improper subset of fuze in a broad historical context, although there are very few demolitions fuses that are not also fuses. There are many fuzes, however, that do not use any fuses. User: Howard C. Berkowitz 4 February 2010

My dictionary has them as one and the same ... neither is a "subset" of the other. But maybe I'm being fussy (or fuzzy?). Milton Beychok 06:21, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

My (British) Collins (1979) has to meanings of "fuse" -

(1) a lead (a safety or a detonating fuse) or any device to ignite a charge, and
(2) a fuse used as protective device in electric circuits, and similar devices.

For the first sense (1) "fuze" is given as U.S. variant spelling.

--Peter Schmitt 13:11, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Might I suggest that dictionary definitions here are less relevant than specialized technical usage, technical manuals and specific experience? You will note that I disambiguated the electrical and pyrotechnic fuses. Nevertheless, it's hard to say that a slowmatch at the Battle of Trafalgar shares any similarity with a programmable hard target fuze. Regardless of what a general dictionary is saying, I handled fuses that were not fuzes, fuzes containing no fuse, and fuze-fuse systems.

For that matter, we haven't even touched fusee, which I suspect is more British English. More common American English for "fusee" would be "highway flare". Both a fusee and a fuse are pyrotechnic devices that use burning; the fusee isn't a delay timer but a source of bright colored light.

Most hand grenades have an overall fuze, of which a fuse is a subsystem.

Might I suggest there are very real and specific engineering distinctions here that are more substantive than general dictionaries? Trust me -- when one is handling explosives, one gets really, really compulsive about precise definitions. --Howard C. Berkowitz 13:58, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Howard, I did not doubt your expert knowledge. I just wanted to add a bit of evidence that in common language "fuze" and "fuse" are spelling variants (for one of the two meanings) only. As this discussion proves this is confusing for non-expert readers (even for native American speakers). Therefore I suggest that both variants point to a single disambiguation page (fuse and fuze, or fuse and fuze (disambiguation), fuse (disambiguation), fuze (disambiguation), where this is explained (and where links to probably both fuze (military) and fuse (military) are provided. --Peter Schmitt 14:50, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

If you are going to look at dictionaries, you have to use British ones for British English and American ones for Amerian English. For example, over here meter and metre are two different words, but Merriam-Webster just gives metre as British for meter without mentioning the distinction. Peter Jackson 17:58, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

What should the disambiguation page(s) be titled?

There is existing fuse (disambiguation). Is it being suggested that fuze be added to that page, and an additional fuze (disambiguation) page, including "s" and "z", be created? I'd suggest, if so, that both pages have a bit more text than the usual disambig page, pointing out that what many regard as a mere spelling variant, and freely interchange, actually do cover different concepts.

Is there anyone here who writes British English and has explosives & demolitions experience? Perhaps British, and European usage as a derivative, is different. On the other hand, pre-20th century fuzes either were simply fuses, or, in clockwork-driven time fuzes, still eventually ignited a pyrotechnic fuse. Modern hand grenades still use a variant of the latter, although more complex weapons fuzes, certainly those that must work at high speed, are purely electrical without a pyrotechnic component. They send initiating power to a detonator, which, at the simplest, heats a wire embedded in a primary explosive. Far more exotic technologies, such as exploding metal foil, are used in ultrahigh speed detonators, as is used in fission weapons, and, without quite as stringent a requirement, things such as explosively formed projectiles. Pyrotechnic fuse propagation just isn't fast or reliable enough for microsecond-range sequencing. Howard C. Berkowitz 15:00, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

OK, rereading, "Fuse and fuze (disambiguation)". I can go with that. Any other opinions? I will keep fuse (disambiguation). --Howard C. Berkowitz 15:22, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Article on U.S. Military Standard

Howard, I just finished ASTM International and International Organization for Standardization. It would be helpful to also have an article on U.S. Military Standard (MIL-STD or MIL-SPEC). Is that something you could or would do?

MIL-STDs are more a publication process than something like ISO. They are actually getting less common as more COTS equipment meets adequate standards. Essentially, some military organization signs off on a specification in its field (e.g., MIL-STD-188 are for digital communications) and has the printing center in Philadelphia start listing it.

Also, do you know anything about the "International Electrotechnical Commission"? Do they write standards on computer hardware or software? Does any organization do that? Milton Beychok 03:57, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

I'm sleepy enough to blank, but they are, as I remember, mostly an international organization that endorses national standards for hardware. I'll get a definition in the morning, but I must confess I can't remember ever calling for an IEC specification in a design -- the specification was jointly issued with someone else, such as IEEE or ANSI or even ISO. `Howard C. Berkowitz 04:05, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Possible article Terrorism prevention strategies

Howard, I'm a former Wikipedian and CZ nooB (few days). I wrote a generally good article on "Terrorism prevention strategies" with 160 references perhaps, but a WP administrator didn't like it saying it was a "very long long long stub". And he/she deleted it. But I'm wondering if you might be interested in this subject. I'll try to post it to my sandbox page soon (right now Spinoza's in there). User talk:Thomas Wright Sulcer/sandbox. Plus, the CZ article on "terrorism" is superior to Wikipedia's in my opinion. --Thomas Wright Sulcer 15:03, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

A long, long, long stub? What next, Jumbo Shrimp, Military Intelligence? Hayford Peirce 15:13, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

Wise Constable? :-) Hmmm...we may not have Military Intelligence per se, but I can do something on some of the national branches and organizations. Intelligence people in the military will work at all levels of intelligence under grand strategy, as well as in the various intelligence collection disciplines, and specific units such as the Military Intelligence Company (Brigade Combat Team) and Reconnaissance, Surveillance and Target Acquisition Squadron (Brigade Combat Team).

Yes, I would be interested in working with it. There is an article on terrorism, which, while Approved, was somewhat before my time here, and needs an update -- there's too much ideology and emotion in it. Other articles of interest might be insurgency and the shorter counterinsurgency as well as the U.S. doctrine, foreign internal defense. There is also a developing counterterrorism — does your material fit into it?

The first step, I think, is to agree what we mean by terrorism. I regard it as a tactic, practiced differently by different groups but having some common elements. It would be nice to get a Version 2 Approved Terrorism article.

Incidentally, you can have /sandbox1, /sandbox2, etc. Howard C. Berkowitz 15:30, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

The material for the "Terrorism prevention strategies" article is in a sandbox: User talk:Thomas Wright Sulcer/sandbox. It is somewhat long. There are lots of references. Somehow, I'm just not that happy with the overall article but I can't put my finger on what bothers me about it. But maybe parts of it could be included in an article about counterterrorism? I don't know.--Thomas Wright Sulcer 17:50, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

About the definition of terrorism. As you know there are so many senses and it's highly pejorative. But I'm willing to go along with your sense of what it means. I spent time on WP trying to get a better definition of it, and the best that I and another editor could come up with was something like this: nobody agrees about the definition, but it USUALLY means violence or the threat of violence, usually intended to cause fear, usually for political purposes, usually directed at innocents (or with disregard to the safety/well-being of innocents), often directed at governments, often staged as a way to get media attention, etc. And the more of these things which happen to be there (IF deliberate, IF done for media attention, IF directed at innocents etc) then the more LIKELY it was to be terrorism. Sheesh. And sometimes governments act like terrorists. I think something along these lines is the mainstream view of terrorism. My own personal (POV) sense of terrorism is "violence against individual rights" with three types of terrorists (criminal, tyrant, foreign terrorist) but this is not the mainstream view.--Thomas Wright Sulcer 17:50, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

Howard, let me know how I can help with the "terrorism prevention strategies" article, like, if you want to chop it up and use it in existing articles, that's fine, or whatever you decide. Give me some sense of how I can assist you. I'm fairly adept at researching topics. Wondering if there is any preferred method of referencing. In the meantime I'll try to import other of my WP creations to CZ, and put in sandbox pages, or else work on Philosophy of Spinoza to try to improve it from before.--Thomas Wright Sulcer 22:50, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

Howard I'm waiting for you to decide what you want to do about "terrorism prevention strategies" -- if you want to chop it up for other articles, abandon it, or split it -- it's up to you. Right now it's in the sandbox and I'm interested in other stuff.--Thomas Wright Sulcer 16:15, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

There's definitely material there that's complementary to anything here, and which should be used. The most useful pieces are the introductions for the nonspecialist, in what might be called the domain of "anti-terrorism", or the actions to mitigate acts once they happen. Very similar actions also apply to preparedness for natural disasters and industrial accidents -- if the only practical response to a dirty bomb, imminent industrial explosion, or hurricane is to evacuate, the preparedness is going to be the same. My first challenge is a reasonably terse name for an article. "Individual emergency preparedness" is the first that comes to mind, perhaps with a higher level article dealing with the concept of widespread emergencies from the citizen perspective, as opposed to Incident Command System. Reality check here: would such a title also encompass preparedness at the family/household level, and, perhaps where it gets into volunteer organizations with guidance, neighborhood level? Indeed, would that be the place for things such as county-level Medical Reserve Corps?

I have to give more thought to strategic terrorism prevention. Unfortunately, I have a number of articles that give responses, in terms of individual action, which are more demagoguery. For example, while there are innumerable economic and social issues about the physical borders of the U.S. and border security, the existing system caught terrorists coming across the Canadian border. It wouldn't have addressed domestic terrorism such as Oklahoma City or Fort Hood, both primarily self-radicalization. Some would-be 9/11 terrorists were unable to enter the country. More stringent measures against Muslims, such as those proposed by Brigitte Gabriel, (e.g., would not have stopped non-Muslim homegrown terrorism, and indeed might have people looking in the wrong direction for jihadist threats. --Howard C. Berkowitz 17:31, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

I'll wait for you to come up with a plan. If you'd like me to lead here, let me know; otherwise I'll work on other stuff.--Thomas Wright Sulcer 18:54, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

(undent) Reality check: what do you think of Individual emergency preparedness as an article title to deal with the personal protection and preparedness? Howard C. Berkowitz 19:17, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Like it. If you need stuff from the sandbox, use it. If you need my assistance, let me know.--Thomas Wright Sulcer 22:12, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Any chance of an article on COBRA?

Until I heard it discussed on a radio programme about police anti-terror strategy that I listened to today, I had never heard of COBRA - Cabinet Office Briefing Room A - the emergency briefing room underneath Whitehall where members of the Cabinet, the police, security services and the armed forces meet when faced with a terrorist attack or other significant crisis. I figure you may know more about it than I do. I'm not even sure where it would be put in the Workgroup structure: it is sort of Military, and sort of Politics. It really is that sticky knot of policing, governance, emergency response, the security services and the military. Former anti-terrorism copper Andy Hayman says Cobra has problems, for instance, citing political faffing-around after the July 7th 2007 bombings. Interested? –Tom Morris 02:39, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

Ah. I was worried you wanted on the object broker, about which I know less than I do about either the command system or the reptile. Not always under the same name, it goes back to WWII.

Yes, you point out a problem of the workgroups; many Military articles are more Grand Strategy or international relations, to say nothing of domestic terrorism and disaster response. I know much more of the U.S. response systems, but have some knowledge of the British. While it's Cold War, there is an excellent if fictional description in Gen. Sir John Hackett's History of the Third World War. I believe its role was also detailed after the (1970?) Iranian embassy takeover. I'm not sure I'm current enough on UK politics to discuss the governmental level. For example, I have no idea of the UK counterpart of the Stafford Act for disaster authority. You do have a simpler governmental structure, without as strict a separation between police and military, to say nothing of multiple police jurisdictions. (At one time when I lived in the District of Columbia, there were at least 23 police organizations of different authority; eventually, an undercover operations clearinghouse had to be established after a shooting between elements of the Metropolitan Police and the FBI). --Howard C. Berkowitz 02:50, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

Ship Style

Howard, thanks for your research and copy edits on Chester W. Nimitz. But I'm perplexed now how to handle a stylistic issue. Ship names are rendered HMS King George V or USS Saratoga or IJN Kaga or RMS Titanic. The name itself is always italicized but the preceding abbreviation is not (see CMOS 7.99). You fixed this with a piped link, e.g. [[USS Yorktown (CV-5)|USS ''Yorktown'' (CV-5)]] (USS Yorktown (CV-5)). That's a rather lengthy fix, don't you think? But it's necessary because the Mediawiki software won't take ''italic'' coding inside an internal link (it ''won't'' work). Other alternatives such as ''[[USS Yorktown]]'' are stylistically incorrect even though they are easier to code. I'm wondering if there isn't an easier way than piping every ship's name. Russell D. Jones 14:58, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

I have no better solution. As you may have noticed, I also have variants such as HMS Dreadnought (1905) and HMS Dreadnought (1960). The suffix, whether a date or a hull number, is needed for disambiguation; the USN has had eight Enterprises. Howard C. Berkowitz 15:06, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Yes, that I know. Russell D. Jones 15:14, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Supporting Israel

When I was reading through the subheadings this one jumped out as being a little more interesting. Depending on ones perspective, this could go in the good or the bad section. I don't have a solution, just thought I'd share that first impression. Chris Day 15:17, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

As I told Tom, I don't think good-vs-bad is eventually going to work. My hope is that it's going to be possible to put a roughly chronological high-level view into U.S. foreign policy, talk about policy and policy influencers at various times, and then go to subarticles.

To be frank, thinking about Tom's comments about "hot" topics, I've been surprised that we haven't had partisans on any of the Middle East issues show up and start arguing. sniffle nobody cares, while it was impossible to write about Iran-Iraq without reverts at WP; I wasn't there for things like Hamas and Gaza.

Stating the source of the "good" as the Israeli ambassador, who was a dual U.S.-Israel citizen until he took the post, wasn't the most neutral reference without identifying him.

There's a book about Guantanamo titled The Least Bad Choice, often the case in foreign policy. US-Israeli relations are immensely complex, and I actually have quite a bit about the interest groups on all sides. So far, the only controversy I've gotten is from User: Michel van der Hoek on J Street. I consciously did the The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy as a book review rather than judgments. In general, I try to use spokesmens' own silly words rather than editorializing about them. Howard C. Berkowitz 15:29, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Using quotes is often a good way to avoid arguments. And so true about the The Least Bad Choice. Reality bites. Chris Day 15:37, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

LOL...at WP, I'd get arguments, in computer science/Internet engineering, when quoting my own peer-reviewed work. I was told I didn't understand the author's intent. Howard C. Berkowitz 15:43, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Maybe they were well aware that you had forgotten more than they had written. :) Chris Day 15:45, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

BAe, BaE or BAE?

See Talk:BaE_Systems_ALARM Chris Day 21:31, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

Chris, I wish I knew for sure -- I can find corporate websites with both BAE and BaE. The U.S. division is BAE. Redirect and guess. Howard C. Berkowitz 01:42, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

My guess is that ALARM was BAe (originally built by British Aerospace) and then got rebranded when marconi and british aerospace merged. I don't know enough about this area but the acronym BaE is something I have never seen before. My dad used to work for MOD at Farnborough, so he might have an idea. Chris Day 02:46, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

I just did a quick search on the web and this is what I came up with so far. All pages I looked at on the BAE Systems web site seem to use all caps for the 'BAE' acronym,such as this page. Older web pages that reference ALARM do use the old british aerospace nomenclature of 'BAe', for example here and here. Current MOD and company websites use a new nomenclature of BAE Systems. No examples of 'BaE', BUT I didn't look that hard or come across the US spin-offs. Chris Day 03:13, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

Homeopathy revisited

A recent report from the British government. Chris Day 07:52, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

Will this contain the homeopathic remedy for dehydration? --Howard C. Berkowitz 08:16, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

A well-known substance that causes dehydration is ethanol. Presumably their cure would be to dilute this until there's none left. Folklore accuses some brewers of doing this anyway. Peter Jackson 10:00, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

The Milwaukee based brewers are homeopaths? I had never looked at that way before. :) Chris Day 15:57, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

Your opinion needed

Howard, see Talk:Cat adoption‎ --Paul Wormer 09:05, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

Time zones are a wonderful thing when insomniac, or, in this case, awakened with a backache, understandably from a large cat sleeping in a not-good spot on my hip. Since he's back from the hospital, he's permitted (well, he's normally permitted). Howard C. Berkowitz 09:10, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

Howard, I used to have a kitten who slept in the zone between my arm and my body. I was careful not to roll over on him, and the kitten was a great companion. Sometimes he'd climb up my jeans, up my sweatshirt while I was standing, and perch on my shoulder; such a great climber! But when he became a cat, and dander developed, I kept sneezing; the doc said I was allergic, and had to take the guy back to the humane society; I was heartbroken. Hope your cat is ok. --Thomas Wright Sulcer 13:16, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

He's doing well, but it's a supportive thing -- he has inoperable squamous cell carcinoma in his mouth, but it appears to be in remission after radiation. We started palliative chemotherapy yesterday; he's putting on weight and seems happy. Howard C. Berkowitz 04:02, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

Meow

You might take a look at the new article about Ogden Nash. Hayford Peirce 18:53, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

Herding cats

Did you write this as bait for RationalWiki? [1] Ro Thorpe 22:47, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

Perhaps a demonstration that RationalWiki is humor-challenged. Howard C. Berkowitz 23:47, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

Is it worth wasting any time trying to answer some of the semi-outlandish opinions expressed there in that particular section? Or better just to ignore them? Hayford Peirce 00:09, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

WP flag waver David Gerard putting down Citizendium and Larry Sanger. Doesn't that guy have anything better to do? Meg Ireland 10:51, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

You may have noticed I put a textbox disclaimer on articles that could relate to techniques relevant to terrorism, such as boobytrap, explosives and improvised explosive device. For the record, while I am not putting in any deliberate errors, I have withheld some fine details of, for example, making things reliably go boom. Nevertheless, I am considering another disclaimer box that affects articles that have, for example, popular culture and humor content. Should I extend Nikki Freud to an article, and write a disambiguated Freudian slip, such a disclaimer might be needed. Howard C. Berkowitz 00:17, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

call me "Crazy", or maybe even "Insane"....

But it was a pleasure to delete those two items. Thanks, Howard, and keep up the good work! Hayford Peirce 00:40, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

Coal article approved!

Congratulations, Howard, the article at [2] has been approved. Hayford Peirce 18:43, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

Next step, slaw. Howard C. Berkowitz 18:49, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

Hi Howard, congratulations on the approval of your article. And I enjoyed your articles on charcoal and especially pastel too. Lin Barneveld 08:58, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Congratulations to the creators!!!--Thomas Wright Sulcer 12:23, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Congrats Howard, you've turned a lump of coal into a diamond :) Meg Ireland 12:27, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

The article is Milt Beychok's work, with just a few suggestions from me. Lin, I'd definitely appreciate suggestions on pastel and charcoal, if only to get me back to the easel -- I have some cat sketches to turn into more serious work (and a try at watercolor).

Charcoal to diamond, with enough pressure, is easy. Coal to cole, and especially to cole slaw, is hard. Howard C. Berkowitz 13:32, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Howard are you artistically inclined? I've always wanted to be a better sketcher but it never turns out quite right. Do you have any cat sketches? Watercolors? By the way, coal to cole --> that would be cool.--Thomas Wright Sulcer 13:38, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Artistic inclination is an interesting issue. I've always been a good photographer, in news, technical, and fine arts area. As an adult, I do have some awards from juried photo contests, and also did technical illustration. My high school had a strong arts and dramatics program, but it seems to have taken a few decades for the lessons to sink in; it's one of those situations where I wish I could repeat high school with current knowledge.

About five years ago, I had to go through some rehabilitation, which included art therapy. It was amusing -- the therapist, in the group setting, asked what materials I wanted, and seemed surprised to hear I wanted charcoal. I started on what, to me, was a get-back-the-skills exercise, doing a perspective drawing of a basket of brushes and pencils. Suddenly, I heard her gasp behind me, "You've had some training" (Pause for movie note from a non-movie-goer; it sounded like the exchange from "An Officer and a Gentleman" when Lou Gossett, the crusty drill instructor, and Richard Gere, the rebellious cadet, fight without insignia, Gere uses some adept throws and kicks, and Gossett calmly observes "you've had some training).

I have some things on my easel, as well as other things nearby. In reasonable shape are a pencil sketch of a sleeping cat, and a pastel and pencil one of a dog. The dog was, in fact, in precise profile, and the picture is quite realistic, but I'm annoyed with perspective. I have a rough sketch of Mr. Clark and Rhonda cuddling, which I plan to try as my first serious watercolor. I may do pastel first.

Perhaps it wouldn't be encyclopedic, but would it be possible, I wonder, to have CZ art and even writing blogs, for mutual support? Howard C. Berkowitz 14:08, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

The current CZ blog is under-utilized. Only Larry making rare announcements there. How is Mr. Clark btw? Meg Ireland 14:18, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

(undent) It's strange -- I now have the same role in doing quality control on different veterinary practitioners as on medical practitioners. We went to the veterinary school yesterday, and the cancer has not grown and he's having no physical or laboratory effects from the chemotherapy; he hss just passed, the median survival. The major problem, which I've had to be very assertive to get fully worked up, is that he has a tissue infection in his cheek, which is probably causing more discomfort than the tumor. Finally, there was a biopsy for culture and sensitivity, and sometime this week, we should stop guessing about antibiotics and be specific.

He was more stressed than usual on his return, and, for a few hours, I couldn't find him. It turned out he had gotten into the cat carrier -- not unprecedented -- but had managed to lock himself in -- unprecendented. It was a little hard to medicate him, but, once I turned off the light in the bedroom, he got out of the carrier, climbed on me for a while and licked my face, and then went to sleep on the pillow. This morning, he's obviously tired but affectionate; I don't think he's in more than mild pain but will reinforce his pain drugs in an hour or two.

I still think he should be writing on proper patient care, Mr. Clark being an excellent nurse and psychotherapist. Howard C. Berkowitz 16:24, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Best wishes for Mr. Clark! If you can photograph your sketches and upload them, we could put them in the "cat" article perhaps, or other places; I like the idea of having a place where we can have our CZ artwork to show each other. I tried to do a sketch of a kitty but it didn't turn out so great; my mother is an artist but she rarely sketches any more. I liked the movie An Officer and a Gentleman which I thought was a perfect title for a movie, because it leads one to suspect that there are two people, but it's really about one person learning to become both roles. When I think about charcoal, I rarely think about using it as a drawing tool, or conversion into diamonds, but rather as fuel.--Thomas Wright Sulcer 18:05, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Charcoals

Apropos charcoal -- classic need for disambiguation. I wrote charcoal (art). In the explosives articles, I have redlinks now to charcoal (material) for purified grades used in explosives, which might need to be separate from activated charcoal used in medicine and chemistry. Charcoal (fuel) relates both to Engineering and Food Sciences. 18:37, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Excellent question. I'm running into this issue all the time. I'm creating an article stub. And it's on a topic that sooner or later (as CZ expands) may call for disambiguation. But right now it doesn't need it. So I'm not exactly sure how to proceed. It's easier for me now to do something without disambiguation, but it may cause more fuss for people down the road. Is there a clear policy here?--Thomas Wright Sulcer 18:59, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

It's hard for me to keep track of what to call articles -- whether for wikilinking as well as naming. I was writing articles on Greek mythology figures and, say, I was writing on on the goddess Diana; should I start it with Diana (mythology), or let other people change it around later, if for example, Princess Diana becomes a major topic in the future? I have a suggestion but I bet people here won't want to hear it, but it would simplify things greatly. Namely, we pick names to match Wikipedia's. They have a much more extensive system, and have (for every topic) figured out whether disambiguation is needed, and what to call what. It brings the further benefit of helping us check our offerings against theirs. I thought I'd mention this idea.--Thomas Wright Sulcer 18:59, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Before I start an article, I do a CZ search for the term. While the internal search engine has many deficiencies, if I see the term show up in text, I start disambiguating -- I may create lemmas, and sometimes stubs, for the articles I found. Diagnosis is a good example.

WP isn't a complete answer, first because, hopefully, we sometimes cover things they don't. Personally, I try to do what we call "Chinese walls" in software development and not look at WP's article, but research and write independently. Howard C. Berkowitz 19:04, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. I saw the article Diagnosis (disambiguation) and saw how it was constructed. Format seems easy enough.--Thomas Wright Sulcer 20:37, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Howard and Tom, are you interested in how to install a box for Google searches of CZ (much better than the CZ search box) directly into the left-hand navigation box just below the CZ search box? If you are, let me know and I will show you how it is done (originally found by Daniel Mietchen). Milton Beychok 23:59, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Caveat: It only works for content that has been indexed by Google, so no User pages and no fresh content. --Daniel Mietchen 00:09, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

And for disambiguation, yes, not clear at the moment but I would recommend to start disambiguated if it is listed at CZ:List of words with multiple uses. --Daniel Mietchen 00:12, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Daniel, I have found that the Google search box is very much better than the CZ search box for finding "Related Articles" as well as for checking to see if a disambiguation page is or will be needed. I use it every time I create a new article. Milton Beychok 00:28, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Milton, I'm interested. My computer uses Ubuntu Linux operating system not Windows; will it still work on it?--Thomas Wright Sulcer 10:54, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

(undent) I'd be interested as well. Howard C. Berkowitz 16:02, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Short version is here. --Daniel Mietchen 19:19, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Couldn't a better search be provided for all par default (in addition to or replacing the current one)?

IRC

I've been on IRC a dozen times this week and so far no-one has been on the #Citizendium channel. I don't think it's going to work as an adequate communications tool when no-one else uses it. Meg Ireland 06:24, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

I haven't tried, but if people will use it, I'll make an effort. Howard C. Berkowitz 06:28, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

What's IRC?--Thomas Wright Sulcer 13:17, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Internet Relay Chat. Think Internet-enabled texting, maybe with longer messages, more powerful conversation, and 1970 technology. I'm generally not a fan of real-time text other than for prearranged times, where it can be quite helpful. Howard C. Berkowitz 13:41, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Thanx for explanation. I'm with you in preferring delayed chat (email), since I can reply when convenient. Similarly, replies on a talk page are perfect for me as well, since I can deal with them (or not) when ready.--Thomas Wright Sulcer 13:49, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

The only reason I've not been on IRC is that every time IRC has been mentioned on the forums, the idea hasn't met much approval. If I'd known other people were going to try using it, I'd be on there. --Chris Key 18:20, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Google search box for CZ

Below are the instructions for installing the Google search box. Be sure to replace my user name with yours and my skin name (monobook) with your skin name:

First, access your user's Java Script (.js) file by typing this (replacing my user name with yours) into the CZ Search box: User:Milton Beychok/monobook.js
Go to the edit page of your Java Script (.js) file:
Then copy and enter the coding just below (again replacing my user name with yours):

importScript("User:Milton Beychok/searchbox.js") // from [[User:Henrik/sandbox/google-search]] at Wikipedia (please include this line) function install_search( ) { document.getElementById('searchBody').innerHTML+='<div>'+ '<FORM method=get action="http://www.google.com/search">'+ '<input type=hidden name="ie" value="UTF-8" /><input type=hidden name="oe" value="UTF-8" />'+ '<INPUT id="searchInput" name="q" type="text" accesskey="f" value="" />'+ '<input type="hidden" name="domains" value="en.citizendium.org" />'+ '<input type=radio name=sitesearch value="">Web'+ '<input type=radio name=sitesearch value="en.citizendium.org" checked />CZ'+ '<INPUT type="submit" name="btnG" VALUE="Google Search" /></FORM></div>'; } addOnloadHook(install_search);

Be sure to copy the above coding from this page (do not copy it from the edit page of this Talk page).
Click to Save the edited Java Script file. Then follow the instruction in your Java Script (.js) file page about clearing your cache after you add the above coding.

Howard, did this work for you? Please let me know, one way or the other. Regards, Milton Beychok 20:49, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

Ah, I think I just saw what I needed: the .js file is in User space, not local to the computer, correct. Howard C. Berkowitz 21:37, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

I made some minor revisions to the above instructions so as to make them clearer (I hope). Milton Beychok 22:43, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

Military pyrotechnics

Hi Howard, I came across this book and thought of you: [3] --Paul Wormer 15:37, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks; I'm reading with interest. I hope it didn't remind you too much of comments on the Forums. Howard C. Berkowitz 15:58, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

Google Juice

Hi, Howard -- would you please, in your capacity of Computer Editor, take a look at Google Juice and make a formal decision as to whether or not it is, as Tom calls it, "blather"? If not, and you decide it should be left here, then please decide, as I requested a while ago on the Talk page of the article in question, as to whether it should remain as "Google Juice" or be Moved to "Google juice". Thanks! Hayford Peirce 17:25, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

Re-approval of Gasoline

Howard, since Gasoline was approved, there have been significant edits made to the History section as well as a number of wiki link and other minor edits (including the adding of a photo) to the article. It needs to be re-approved so that the Approved version gets updated.

The two original nominators, David Volk and Anthony Argyriou, are no longer very active. Would you please nominate Gasoline for re-approval? Thanks and regards, Milton Beychok 19:46, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

Howard, I know you are very busy ... but I would really appreciate it if you took the time to nominate Gasoline for re-approval. Please let me know if you will do so. Thanks, Milton Beychok 17:54, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

I believe that I've answered your questions about Gasoline. See Talk:Gasoline. Milton Beychok 07:47, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Cat's tail

Howard, if any of your cats ever loses his or her tail give him/her Ormus. See video starting at 30:23 --Paul Wormer 16:15, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Please join with me in urging Hayford not to resign

Howard, see my plea to Hayford not to resign as Constable (on his Talk page). Please join me! Milton Beychok 19:56, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

Definitions based on MeSH

Hi Howard, please take a look at this forum thread, along with {{DefMeSH}}, and comment. Thanks! --Daniel Mietchen 23:49, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

a cap or not?

I'm finally writing the lede to An Infinity of Mirrors. Do we say, "it's about the rise of the Nazi Party" or "the rise of the Nazi party"? Since there was a *long* discussion elsewhere about the exact use of Nazi, I suppose that it can be argued either way. What's *your* opinion? Thanks. Hayford Peirce 21:44, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Cap. It's a specific Party: U.S. Republican Party, U.S. Democratic Party. The German acronym was NDSAP. Howard C. Berkowitz 22:37, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Danke, Herr Doktor Professor von und zu Berkowitz! Hayford Peirce 23:14, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

But "Nazi party" was not the official name. (I don't think they used it for themselves.) Thus I am not so sure ... --Peter Schmitt 23:27, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

That, mon cher Pierre, is exactly why I asked! Wasn't there an *enormous* argument about this over at the Nazi page a year or so ago? Maybe you weren't yet a Member? Hayford Peirce 23:45, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

I do not know if I was a member. I only know that I was not aware of it. --Peter Schmitt 23:49, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Musta been before your time, or I'm sure you would have weighed in on one side or another. Although I *think* that there were more than two sides to the question. Hayford Peirce 00:07, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Problem solved: changed the wording to "the rise of the Nazis and the Third Reich". Hayford Peirce 04:18, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Cypherpunk

Is that one ready for approval? It has Computers, Law & Sociology as work groups. Do we have editors there? Sandy Harris 04:13, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

Computers and Sociology, yes. Let me reread the article. Howard C. Berkowitz 13:57, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

Cryp. article at [4] approved

Congratulations, Howard, we've finally got the article approved! Sorry for the various delays.... Hayford Peirce 21:09, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Please review Renewable energy

Howard, since you are a Politics Editor, I would much appreciate your reviewing the Renewable energy article and editing/revising/commenting on it. Thanks, Milton Beychok 00:22, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

As you correctly pointed out, the current section, "Rationale for renewable energy", focuses only on the environmental rationale. How about writing just a couple of paragraphs about the "energy dependency" or "energy security" rationale for renewable energy? Would you do that, please? Thanks, Milton Beychok 01:18, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

I will do so, and we'll just plan on having three editors for eventual Approval. Howard C. Berkowitz 01:22, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for for writing that section of the renewable energy rationale about "Political contributions". I like it. Milton Beychok 21:35, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Gasoline article reApproved

Congratulations, Howard, I finally managed to get Version 2.0 reApproved, although it took most of the morning. You had better check it over carefully, however, to make sure that I really did get the correct version approved! Hayford Peirce 19:16, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

Will check, although it's giving us all gas. Howard C. Berkowitz 20:02, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

Kerckhoffs' Principle

Howard, the version approved in the article url points to a talk page version. Could you take a look and update it to the version you want to approve? D. Matt Innis 01:10, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

Approved! (now that Sandy got your attention... and yes, you were confused - Peter's name is nowhere on that article, lol :) D. Matt Innis 14:45, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Please see...

This D. Matt Innis 16:30, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

Looks Good

Howard,

Those last bits you're adding look good. I'd leave James Q. Wilson out unless you have a specific idea for how to tie him in (I don't). And make the Hall connection as best you can.

Let me know when you're done and I'll update the permanent link. I'd like to have about a day of 'idle time' tomorrow to make sure everyone is content with the result or has a chance to raise any last minute corrections/objections.

Everything looks good from my end.

Roger

Process Safety Management (United States)

Just to let you know that I have created a new article, Process Safety Management (United States), and the "Emergency management subgroup" is listed in its Metadata template. Milton Beychok 21:29, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

Great Siege of Scarborough Castle

Another one under your belt! Thanks! D. Matt Innis 13:15, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Naming of subgroups

Howard, when I created the first two subgroups (Chemical Engineering and Environmental Engineering), I took note of the fact that all of our Workgroups having more than one-word names capitalized all of the words in their names. For example:

Earth Sciences, Visual Arts, Food Science, Healing Arts, Health Sciences, Library and Information Science

Based on those examples, I capitalized both words in Chemical Engineering and in Environmental Engineering. Now, I see that you capitalized only the first words when naming the "Emergency management" and the "Energy policy" subgroups. I know this is a trivial subject, but do you think that CZ needs to establish how subgroups should be named? Or do we have bigger fish to fry at the moment? Regards, Milt

While I'd think of other fish at the moment, I was trying to address what was a broader context: the capitalization of the lead article. We don't capitalize non-proper-nouns (unless they are related to an acronym) in article titles, so "Energy policy" is the correct capitalization. Unfortunately, that causes some conflict if the subgroup code wants "Energy Policy". So, in setting a standarde, which does not exist, we need to address both the subgroup naming and the lead article naming. You'll see I started with subgroups with all caps, but later found conflicts. Ideally, the code should be case insensitive, but it's not.

If anything, I think it's the workgroup names that are out of sync with conventions. The examples you give would be incorrect as article titles -- perhaps the workgroups are working via redirects. Nevertheless, since I expect the EC to revise workgroups as an early action, it's not worth fixing now. --Howard C. Berkowitz 23:23, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Yet, again, I must fight this losing battle. Titles, regardless of CZ, are capitalized whether they be article titles, heading titles, magazine titles, book titles, movie titles, group titles, sub-group titles, etc., etc. For a bunch of experts this amateurish titlization policy makes us look like a bunch of high schoolers. Russell D. Jones 00:24, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

DNS

Howard, may I remind you the only a link has to be fixed (or removed) and some sentence clarifying initial TLDs and introduction of more TLDs is missing in Domain Name System? --Peter Schmitt 23:22, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

Couple of questions

Hi Howard. You have really accomplished lots this past year; thanks for your great efforts in CZ. First, you might consider archiving part of your talk page so that it's not so overwhelmingly long. Second, I'm teaching a course again this summer--another 6-week wonder--and want the students to author in here (they are computer science students). I see you have done a bang-up job starting cloud computing, and I have my eye on that article as well as several topics related to parallelism. Just wanted to see if you're feeling particularly possessive, or if it will be alright with you to unleash a hoard of young folks onto articles which you have cherished. Any particular ones you want us to keep mitts off of? Thanks in advance.Pat Palmer 16:48, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

Did some trimming and archigving; there are things that need attention so I kept them on the active page.

With a number of Computers articles, I see a win-win approach as spinning off subarticles. DNS needs just a couple of fixes for Peter to nominate it. While I have a number of things to add to cloud computing, I will be doing at least some of that in subarticles; the main article is too long in its present form. I would like to get it to approval as the top of the tree. Clearly, I don't own it, but I am using some of the cloud computing material in discussions with people outside CZ -- I managed to get one old colleague to sign up at least to make a few edits. I'm also using it as a reference in several discussions, so I'd like to keep it at an expert-written level.

That said, I would be delighted to see some subarticles, with the Eduzendium tag, created, and I'd be happy to work with students. As a general EZ comment, Gareth and Celine seemed to get some very good results by having teams of students, rather than individuals, work on the articles. I, and I'm sure others, would be happy to work with students during the writing, guiding them but certainly not writing anything for them. Howard C. Berkowitz 18:59, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for your quick response. I just skimmed the entire article; it's really a tour de force on a tricky subject. Good job! I won't unleash them directly on this article; in fact, I might ask them to read it.Pat Palmer 20:42, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

There are some areas in security where I want to extend it, possibly as subarticles. In addition, I'm gaining some practical experience looking at SaaS vs. hosted server vs. local server for physician offices, and finding lots of questions -- obviously this falls into original research.

Are you thinking of giving any assignments in virtualization, which gets more complex every time I look? Somewhere, I have an interesting paper discussing how an experimenter went onto a public PaaS cloud and was able to sniff passwords and such if he could get onto the same physical server. One vulnerability often missed is that a paused virtual machine is just a file, and if the file security isn't tight, there are the keys to the kingdom if you're on the same machine.

Another interesting area, which might make two or more assignments, are variously the idea of a federated data base, and the security approach Google has proposed to meet HIPAA and other physical security requirements: no file exists, in its entirety, in any one server at any one physical location. Howard C. Berkowitz 21:03, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

Howard (and anyone), I am indeed looking for good article topics for several groups of 2-4 students, related to an "emerging technology" (something that is a "hot topic" these days). Other requirements for a good topic are that it is not yet satisfactorily written up in either Wikipedia or Citizendium. There must also be something they can find out about it using the Penn library resources that are not available just by Googling (i.e., a refereed journal article, or a market report that costs money, etc.). The course is described at CIS 700 Emerging Technologies 2010. Please leave any topic suggestions on my talk page--those would be very welcome! Ideally for a brand new article to be produced in Citizendium (or something that is little more than a stub).Pat Palmer 21:24, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Doom (video game)

Hi Howard, please see this. --Chris Key 13:40, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Doom approved

Hi, Howard, this Version 1.0 was just Approved. Congratulations! Hayford Peirce 18:30, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Yay!Pat Palmer 21:27, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

When this article is ready for the approval process

Howard, when you're ready to ask for this article to be approved, I will support it. Not up to date on how to start that myself, so please yourself (or another editor) make the nomination and then tell me how to vote for it (after looking at that version, of course).Pat Palmer 21:27, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

please email me (off of CZ)

Howard, would you please email me at pgpalmer AT gmail.com? I want to discuss something offline from here. Thanks!Pat Palmer 23:01, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

emerging topics

Thanks for the creative list of ideas you deposited on my talk page. "Micropayments" was already on my list! I will take these under advisement and very much appreciate it. And, I did get the email. May not send anything right now, just wanted a private channel to you in case I need it once Eduzendium begins. Incidentally, I'm not going to lock their articles (at least not at first), as I want them to experience group interactions. Though people will be able to meddle with them, I hope everyone will be gentle, remembering that they are on a very steep learning curve.Pat Palmer 01:31, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

by the by

Sorry to hear that you have a sick cat. I know how awful it is when one of the fuzzy friends is ill. Aleta Curry 23:02, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

The Father of Us All

Howard, if you haven't already read, The Father of Us All: War and History, Ancient and Modern, you might want to give it a look-see. Thoughtful writer, Victor [sic] David Hanson. Bloomsbury Press. 2010. ISBN 978-1-60819-165-9. Anthony.Sebastian 02:32, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

Crypto approvals

I think cypherpunk is ready. Cryptology is being discussed. There are also a lot of small articles — active attack, passive attack and all their children — that I think are pretty close. Could you comment on or nominate some of those? Should rewrite attack become a separate article?

Various others — FreeSWAN, DRM, stream cipher, cryptanalysis — are fairly developed but probably not approvable yet. I'd like to move them along, but am not clear how. Any comments there? Sandy Harris 02:01, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

OK, I was just waiting for you to be comfortable with cypherpunk, and will nominate it now. Let me look at the others. It may be stretching things a bit much, but some things in electronic warfare, principally aimed at non-communications things, I think do relate -- such things as active probing. If you have a chance, do read and especially comment on the flow in electronic warfare. As I remember, stream cipher is also good.

Howard C. Berkowitz 02:37, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

Also AES competition. I'd forgotten that one...Sandy Harris 14:10, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

Added some articles to Category:Energy policy Subgroup

Howard: I added these articles: Energy (science), Natural gas, and Carbon capture and storage. Regards, Milton Beychok 01:16, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

Image:Domain Tree.png

(CC) Image: Howard C. Berkowitz

I may be missing something, but this image appears inaccurate when following down from .uk:

.edu.uk doesn't exist and is instead replaced with .ac.uk for higher education colleges and universities, and .sch.uk for primary and secondary schools.
.com.uk doesn't exist and is instead replaced with .co.uk for general use, .ltd.uk for limited companies, and .plc.uk for public limited companies.

--Chris Key 17:27, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. Is this better:

Suggestions on the domain vs. zone metaphor are welcome! Howard C. Berkowitz 06:44, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

Yes, that is no longer inaccurate. For a full list of SLD's from the .uk TLD see [5] and [6]. The most common ones seen are .co.uk, .ac.uk, .org.uk and .gov.uk.

I'll have a think about the metaphor. --Chris Key 15:05, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

Do you know any of the faculty or administrators at MIT?

I'm writing an article about Professor Edwin Richard Gilliland (1909-1973), an eminent engineering professor at MIT ... and I need a photo of him. I found one in the website of the MIT Museum at here and wrote them for permission to use it ... but no response. Do you know anyone at MIT who could help? In particular, I'm interested in the photo entitled ERG_001.jog on that museum website page. Milton Beychok 22:51, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

Unfortunately, my Cambridge contacts these days are at Harvard. There's probably a public relations office for the university. Howard C. Berkowitz 01:42, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

Muller or Mueller?

Hi, Howard, I was about to add to the H. Muller article when I searched for "Mueller" and went to a "Lemma" article about him instead. Can you straighten out the confusion here? I *know* there are different spellings, etc., but all we need is one article, I would say. By the way, I *thought* Muller was the 6'7" guy but the article says he was short. Was it Kaltenburg (sic) who was the big guy? Hayford Peirce 22:09, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

Ernst Kaltenbrunner was the tall one.

I'm not sure how to handle articles where the umlaut, or indeed diacritics in general, are appropriate. My approach is pragmatic: do I know how to find the character, with diacritic, to enter for a search? Most U.S. name databases with which I worked used the dipthong rather than the diacritic just for that reason. Howard C. Berkowitz 22:15, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

Well, I know there's a problem here, but don't you think we should simply delete the Mueller lemma -- and have lotsa redirects to Muller (with the dots, I guess). Hayford Peirce 22:36, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

The only consistent method (for an expert-guided project) is using the correct name (with umlauts and diacritics), and provide redirects from "usual spellings". (The situation is different for emigrants who used a simplified name.) --Peter Schmitt 22:45, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

I agree 100%. Will one of you gentlemen remove the egregious (hehe) Heinrich Mueller or will I have to do it myself? Hayford Peirce 23:16, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

Whitman article

Hello Howard, while adding information to the Charles Whitman article, when I went to save, there was an edit conflict. I'm not sure if you reversed the info box, or it did not take because of the conflict. I will add another info box and if there was a reason for you to reverse, please explain why and we'll resolve any issues. BTW, has it been discussed before about using Adobe PDF files as uploads? They are great for multiple page documents and only have to be uploaded once. Plus, they have a non-copy and paste feature as well as a do not print and copy feature. This would help with WP problems where info is absconded by those techniques. Regards! John Calvin Moore 20:13, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Ahhhh! Having come from Wikipedia, info boxes were the norm. I like the synthesis issue as well. The problem with Whitman though, is that I have all the records that are in contrast with all the information on the net and in the media. So I am using the documents to verify the information. If there is a way to hyperlink the documents to a blue link in a word, would that be better? I can only use the web for medical and psychological evidence for referencing. The other way got be banned from WP. John Calvin Moore 20:54, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

a naval question

Hi Howard, if you had a 1941 squad (I guess, a small landing party, squadron?) of U.S. Marines coming ashore on Christmas Island to rescue Santa Claus from a group of Japanese sailors off a submarine, what kind of small, high-speed boat would they have taken from their mother ship, a nearby aircraft carrier? This is the situation that James Norman Hall is writing about in a previously unknown short story of his called "Le Père Noël on Christmas Island". Thanks! Hayford Peirce 00:03, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

Hmm...depends on the number of Marines, but a Higgins boat (early version of the LCVP), or, for a smaller group, a Boston Whaler. This assumes something that the vessel might have (and a carrier would not have a Higgins but any amphib would). Personnel only? Would it have to beach? I think Marine squads were 13 men in 1941. Howard C. Berkowitz 00:22, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

Higgins sounds right. It wasn't until Guadalcanal that the Marines realized that they needed something to get from ship to shore without having to go over the gunwales. Thus the landing craft. And I agree that I'd doubt that an aircraft carrier would have something like this. They may have had a small motor boat of some sort though for inter-ship transportation while at anchor. Jones 00:38, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

Yup, but what would I *call* the "small motor boat" in just a general description by a non-technical person? "The Marines jumped ashore from their small xxxxx that had brought them at high speed from the aircraft carrier." Thanks!

What's wrong with "motor launch" or "motor boat?" Jones.

How about "small motor boat"? Lighters are usually unpowered. A corvette is a small warship. If Coast Guardsmen were crewing it, it would be a cutter. Howard C. Berkowitz 01:58, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

I'll probably use "motor launch" -- that sounds a little more official/technical -- I'll put Joe E. Brown and Jack Lemmon in the stern, however, or is that the prow? Hayford Peirce 04:02, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

The prow is the pointy end, unless both ends are pointy. Just remember to launch the launch so you can let it motor to the point where it will land and be launched again. Howard C. Berkowitz 05:42, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

Response to your comments at Talk:Process Safety Management (United States)

Howard, I have posted a response to your comments at Talk:Process Safety Management (United States). You might want to look at my response. Milton Beychok 20:28, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

World of Warcraft

Approved! Thanks for your thoughtful participation once again! D. Matt Innis 12:03, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

New article: Hazard and Operability Study (HAZOP)

I just created a new article, namely Hazard and Operability Study (HAZOP), and it is now included in the Category:Emergency management Subgroup. Milton Beychok 00:47, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

Redlinks

Thanks for your addition to the redlinks section of my userpage. Some useful suggestions - I'll work on them as and when I can.

I think it would be an interesting project, if we could find a place for it, to have a page were we could list redlinks we have created in the process of writing articles. We could try to organise them into some sort of priority and discuss how we might best approach things like disambiguation pages and offshoots from main articles. You gave three examples of this latter with regard to improvised explosive device, assault rifle and Civil Rights Movement.

--Mal McKee 10:11, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Picatinny rail

Hi there, how come you renamed the picatinny to pickatinny? The Pickatinny Arsenal you mention is here [7] and doesn't use the k in their name. The picatinny rail was named after Picatinny Arsenal, which is shown in the source you provided[8] where it says The term “Picatinny” comes from the place of origin for this system, the Picatinny Arsenal located in New Jersey. I think that all sources, including the US Army, use picatinny in place of pickatinny. David Finn 19:01, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply, and the quick fix (I was hesitant to start my Citizendium career with a bunch of page moves, it's not something I have done before). Further to the Yamato debate I have added a reply over at that page - there are a lot of battleship classes already created, but there are many yet to be started, and maybe to aid any future contributors it would be best to have something over at CZ:Military Workgroup that explains why one system is preferred over the other. Cheers. David Finn 06:56, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

the hypen

Hi, Howard, why are you continuing to use the hyphen -- it is clearly wrong. Hayford Peirce 00:44, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

Huh? What hyphen? Howard C. Berkowitz 00:52, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

Oh. You didn't see this? http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Talk:Yamato-class Hayford Peirce 01:10, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

You might want to get acquainted with Donald C. Church

Howard, I just approved Donald C. Church as an author and editor in the Politics workgroup. You might want to get acquainted with him. Milton Beychok 05:38, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

Hazard and Operability Study/Gallery

Can you use any of the photos in the Hazard and Operability Study/Gallery in any of your emergency management articles? If so, feel free to do so. Milton Beychok 01:10, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

John Dittmer, another new editor you might want to get acquainted with

Howard, I believe that you will want to get acquainted with John Dittmer, a new editor in Military and Computers. Milton Beychok 16:17, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Navy SEALs

Mr. Berkowitz, I probably won't be able to glean much on the Ramage, I spent only a few weeks on the ship and didn't (unfortunately) gain any historical knowledge about the ship. However, I was wondering if you would mind if I made significant changes to the Navy SEALs article. I notice that much of the information may be outdated, as well as, incorrect. The Navy SEAL mission has changed drastically in Afghanistan and Iraq and SEALs are becoming more proficient in Foreign Internal Defense (Direct Training of Foreign Militaries) and then working with them. Additionally, the SEALs have become very proficient in working with conventional military units to achieve significant victories in Iraq (Ramadi)...Dick Couch wrote a spectacular book about it: "Sheriff of Ramadi: Navy Seals and the Winning of Al Anbar." Captain Couch also wrote several other spectacular books about SEAL Training as well as Army Special Forces Training. John Fischer 19:53, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

The SEAL article proper hasn't been touched in a while, although the new roles you correctly mention are mentioned in Afghanistan War (2001-) and Battle of Tora Bora. Interesting -- while there is a good deal about Anbar Province in Iraq War, Surge, I hadn't been aware of other than Army activities.

You might want to look at the Foreign Internal Defense article to see that it reflects SEAL doctrine, and there are articles on the various classic specops missions such as direct action (military) and special reconnaissance. Have you had any exposure to the Marine SpecOps units?

There's a battle, here on Cape Cod, between the seals and the great white sharks, but I don't think we want to go there.

--Howard C. Berkowitz 19:59, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Until recently, I believe, the Navy SEAL involvement in Al Anbar was not well publicized. However, the Navy Seals were a part of a new type of warfare (Similar to the "Ink Blot" style that took place in Vietnam). They worked side by side with Conventional Army Infantry Platoons as a supplement. The mission in Ramadi was to capture little pieces, build a barrier, capture a little more, make the barrier larger, etc... The SEALs were responsible for several things, including Sniper Overwatch (A SEAL specialty) SEALs split well into smaller groups of 4 and 2 where the 4 consist of 2 sniper teams of 2 and the Snipers would find a perch and provide "overwatch" for the platoon/unit. In this case, that unit was a mix of a conventional infantry platoon and a seal platoon.

Also, BUD/s has been replaced as the significant/most difficult part of the training pipeline. SEALs do not receive their Trident until after a second training school informally known as "The Finishing School." They have also removed Army Airborne School as their jump school and established their own Navy Jump School where they can be trained in HALO, HAHO, and other forms of combat insertion.

Additionally, Unconventional Warfare is not the bread and butter of U.S. Army Special Forces...Foreign Internal Defense is. The Unconventional Warfare Mission in the Army is more of a Delta Specialty. However, they do perform UW missions as well.

I do have some connections in the Marine Corps Special Operations Command. I am planning on putting in an application to MARSOC after my first tour as a pilot. Unfortunately for new Marines, MARSOC only takes applications from Marines who have done at least one deployment. The pipeline has not been well defined for me, I know it consists of several stages (similar to SEALs), beginning with an application, a "tryout" which may get you an invite back for a second stage of tryouts and a school (most likely similar to BUD/s).

John Fischer 20:15, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Actually, I'd call the Delta core more direct action (military), counterterrorism, and counterproliferation. There's been a continuing argument in Army specops that Special Forces, who often have language and cultural skills not necessarily honed in Delta, were being used too often for "kick in the door" missions. UW is the mirror image of FID, organizing rather than defending against guerillas. It was originally the key mission for Army Special Forces, but wasn't actually that common.

Sorry, but I can't get the juxtaposed images of "bread and butter" and "jump school" out of my mind--I'm picturing someone exiting by stepping on butter.

There's a bit scattered around about the Marine Radio Recon teams, although I don't know where they are in the current organization. A SF Group has comparable SOT-A teams to deploy. Howard C. Berkowitz 20:24, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

I completely agree. Delta was originally thought of by Colonel Charlie Beckwith after he spent time with British SAS and decided that the United States needed a capability to deal with operations similar to the kidnapping of Olympic Athletes in Munich (Beckwith was incredibly impressed with GSG 9). He based the training pipeline on the SAS training and they became mirror images of each other. Delta is involved in mostly direct-action and counter-terrorism missions but are well trained in the art of unconventional warfare.

I can tell you, however, that FID was very much the key mission for Army Special Forces in Iraq. Additionally, FID was so important the United States Mission in Iraq that SEALs were also called in to do FID. Since SEALs are "out of their element" in Iraq (Land Based Urban Operations), this became a significant part of their mission in Iraq as well.

Now you have me picturing a group of SEALs doing a night insertion but all of them slipping and sliding out of the plane on a stick of butter that has somehow infiltrated the cargo bay of their C-130.

John Fischer 20:53, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

See herding cats. Seriously, I do have Beckwith's book on Delta's development. In the Iraq War, there were essentially two Special Operations chains of command: overt FID under SOCCENT, featuring the Special Forces Groups, and DA/SR under JSOC. Howard C. Berkowitz 21:13, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Why not combine State of Israel and Israel ??

Howard, I see no point in having both the State of Israel and the Israel articles. Why not combine them? Just simply speedy delete the very small Israel article after extracting any useful content from it and working any such content into the much larger State of Israel article. It should only take you a few minutes to do that. I am not an editor in the Politics, Military of Economics workgroups, so I cannot request speedy delete of Israel.

Also, I really think that the cat=Economics should be replaced by the cat=Geography in the Metadata template of State of Israel. That would be more appropriate. Milton Beychok 04:02, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

I had seen the Israel article as the focus for geography, history before the modern era, anthropology, etc. It hasn't been expanded but certainly could be -- there are other countries where the modern state and the historical context are separate.

Since the geographic information belongs in Israel, State of Israel can deal with both the economic aspects of Israeli high-tech industry, as well as its role as largest recipient of U.S. foreign aid. Howard C. Berkowitz 04:07, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

I disagree, Howard. I think the article Israel should be deleted after extracting any useful content and working any such content into the State of Israel article. As I read the article Israel, it contains very little content that is not in the much larger State of Israel article. In fact, the first sentence of this article starts off as: The State of Israel ... . Milton Beychok 04:23, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

Rather off-topic but I cannot resist: in fact "Israel" should be first of all a name of a people (nation), not state; but the common use is different, I know. Boris Tsirelson 19:41, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

I really don't think of Israel as a name of a people, although I recognize that it is sometimes used as that in what I consider religious contexts. Howard C. Berkowitz 19:44, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

Re your edit of Unidentified flying object

Howard, your edit of the subject article has left some extraneous "blockquote" tags showing in the main article. I think you should have a look. I would have corrected them myself but I am not quite sure of what you wanted to do. Milton Beychok 17:27, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

I'm not sure of the procedure here but I just lost a bunch of statistics...

I'm not sure of the procedure here as the inuse tag is not used. I lost a bunch of statistics as I went to save the UFO page and found your work. Please advise on how to go about it. Thanks!

Mary Ash 19:44, 22 July 2010 (UTC)Mary Ash

I understand collaboration and I respect articles undergoing active writing

I understand collaboration but a part of collaboration is respecting someone who is actively editing an article. I lost a bunch of statistics and will have to rewrite it. Also, I moved the history section, as stated earlier, as chopped up the article. Where the history section sits now allows the article to flow and makes it easier to read. It also makes sense. I left similar comments on the article's discussion page.

I have written one article at Wikipedia so I may not know all the Wikipedia etiquette. I do know and understand wikiHow etiquette where I contributed 300+ articles.

Please advise what the local custom is when an article is under active writing or editing.

Thanks! Mary Ash 20:04, 22 July 2010 (UTC)Mary Ash

The local custom (and common sense) is to make FREQUENT SAVES! That way, if someone else comes along makes a so-called "conflicting edit", you won't have lost too much, since the previous version can be found in the History tab. Also material lost by "edit conflicts" can generally be recovered by other means. But, in a broader sense, CZ custom allows *anyone* to make edits to ongoing articles. In other words, if I see you writing a new article about Jules Verne and I happen to be a Verne enthusiast, I can jump in at any point and add material, edit some of yours (copy-editing, rewording, grammar, etc, minor stuff). This has greatly annoyed some of our *best* contributors when they first joined -- they felt that they should have the right to create an entire article before other people jumped into it. Most of these people quickly adapted to our ways, one or two may have left. One way to write an article so that it is NOT touched is for you to write in a Mary Ash\Sandbox, a privileged area that you create yourself. Write your article there, then move it to Mainspace. Why don't you ask Milt to help you with Sandboxes -- he's an expert on them, and does all of his initial writing in them. User:Milton Beychok. Hayford Peirce 20:15, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

Also remember that if you make an edit, hit save and are informed that there is an edit conflict, you can just hit the 'Back' button on your browser to take you to the work you have just done. That way you haven't lost any of your contributions, you can just copy/paste them into a new editing window, integrating your edits with those made by others. David Finn 08:06, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

Wow, after all these years, I didn't know that! Haha.. D. Matt Innis 12:02, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

You do not need the back button. In case of an edit conflict the page shows two edit windows. The upper window is the current content of the page, the lower window contains the text that you wanted to save. So it is only necessary to copy from the lower window to the upper one. (You know that, don't you? But not every "newbie" realiözes it. --Peter Schmitt 12:08, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

Peter, that is NOT true for me -- my browser, my skin, who knows? And god knows I've have enough Edit Conflicts over the years.

David, that is SORT of true for me -- BUT I have to first hit the "Back" button, where I get a message saying the page is lost or some gobbly-gook like that, and THEN have to hit the "Refresh" (the round arrow in the box), and THEN I'm back to the edit page that I wanted to make. But THEN you have to go and do a Copy and Paste from the material that you yourself have just written, then go the NEW article that has the other material in it from the guy who had the Conflict with you, and *then* Paste in your own material. If you don't you it that way, and simply SAVE what you have found for yourself, you will then DELETE the material that the other person put in.

The SAFEST thing to do when editing a page in which you think other people may be working is to write your new material, then highlight that material, then COPY that highlighted section, THEN click the Save button. That way, if there IS a Conflict, you will have your own material saved on the clipboard, ready to be pasted back into the new article. Hayford Peirce 15:49, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

(unindent)
In case of an edit conflict I see on top of the page (below the box with "Talk Page Etiquette"):

Please remember to place the subpages template at the top of the page. See Subpage help for guidance.

Someone else has changed this page since you started editing it. The upper text area contains the page text as it
currently exists. Your changes  are  shown in the lower text area. You will have to merge your changes into 
the existing text. Only the text in the upper text area will be saved when you press "Save page".

Is this indeed browser or skin dependent? (I use Firefox and Modern). This seems unlikely, but it must be if you don't see it. --Peter Schmitt 19:45, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

I don't understand, Peter. Is there a question about it? Howard C. Berkowitz 19:50, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

How very strange, Peter! I've been here a little over three years now and have, at various times, used IE, Firefox, and Chrome as my sole browser. I never saw what you're saying I should be seeing with any of them. And I've always used Monobook as my skin. There's probably an explanation somewhere. (By the way, I just upgraded a few days ago to the latest Chrome and that *finally* fixed some problems that I'd always had with Cut and Paste. but I *know* that two days ago, and even yesterday, I had an Edit Conflict, and, even with the new Chrome, I didn't see anything different.) Hayford Peirce 19:56, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

IMPORTANT UPDATE -- I just now had an Edit Conflict with Howard -- and now the Your text box is at the bottom of the screen! It must be the new Chrome fixing things! And yesterday I hadn't scrolled down far enough to see it.... Wow! Hayford Peirce 19:56, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

I always had, in Firefox, "Your text" at the bottom.

What interests me is that I've never installed Chrome, but, every few days, I get an error message that Firefox is stalled due to a stuck script -- do I want to cancel it? Almost invariably, the script is chrome:, not http:. Howard C. Berkowitz 19:59, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

This is all ye know on Earth, and all ye need to know: Computers are gonna drive ya freakin' CRAZY! Hayford Peirce 04:41, 25 July 2010 (UTC)\\

An edit conflict is normal when writing at a busy wiki or when an article is in great demand. This must have been a slow wiki if you have never experienced this before.

It is not browser dependent. It is caused by another editor editing the article the same time you are. This is the whole point of my frustration and why I was encouraging the use of the "inuse" tag. As at busy wikis, this helps prevent page conflicts.

Mary Ash 18:12, 25 July 2010 (UTC)Mary Ash

I don't think Hayford was trying to say he hadn't encountered an edit conflict. He was trying to say that he hadn't encountered the second edit box that occurs at the bottom of the edit conflict page that contains the text that you wrote so nothing is lost. Also Mary, when doing the indents on talk pages you need to put the :::: at the start of every line. --Chris Key 18:16, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

The problem here, Chris, is that Mary was editing with an outside editor and pasting back in. In the meantime, others had posted. When she then pasted her entire article back in, it deleted all of Milts formatting and Howard's changes. They thought she did it on purpose and the rest is history. Is that a reason to be blocked? D. Matt Innis 18:38, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

Since this is on my user page, let me clarify that only Milt actually called for blocking. It is not clear to me that she was reading the talk page at first. When a sandbox was suggested, something that would have met her desire to control the draft, I don't remember any specific response -- only arguments about how we should collaborate by her standards. Matt, you may not have been following the article at that point. Hayford had recused himself from Constable action. Perhaps Hayford could have used disclaimers rather than outright recusal.

Given two Editors were having major problems with the content being added and what we saw as ignoring guidance, I don't think our job was to diagnose why she was having problems with her tools, when she was told about a tool that would meet her requirements: the sandbox. I felt very significantly undercut as an Editor, in an area where I happen to have substantial specific knowledge (e.g., air defense and sensors), when the version that I was trying to improve was moved to an inappropriate "/Draft" subpage and a very rough draft was moved to a seemingly coequal status in mainspace. Howard C. Berkowitz 18:50, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

Hayford told her not to use the sandbox. You didn't know that. I did.

That was more nuanced than you suggest. The mainspace article at that point couldn't have gone there as it wasn't all her content. She could have used a sandbox to have free development. There was absolutely no reason that UFO/Mary Ash could not have been in Mary Ash/UFO, and it wouldn't have gotten her draft indexed by Google. Howard C. Berkowitz 19:27, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

You were intricately involved in the article, which makes you an author. I had to give both articles equal space until I could see what was happening. I learned that Draft space is not a good idea. I'll remember that next time, but you'll have to trust me to make decisions that are in the interest of Citizendium. I can't expect anybody that is authoring to give me true information, and I placed more weight on what I saw, rather than what was being demanded that I do. D. Matt Innis 19:19, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

"Equal space"? Nonsense. I am unaware of a restriction on Editors being recused, for participation, in anything but Approval -- and even then we have the three editor rule. In this case, you were siding with one author over two Editors. One of those Editors, who was not intricately involved, asked you to ban the Author, something I had not requested.

Sorry, in this case, I have to say it in public: I don't trust you to be neutral when I'm involved. Not to go into things that were in email, but even here, you are focused on my role and not considering that Milt was calling for harsher action than I was. You, I, and at least one other party to this discussion are aware of non-public correspondence where you've accused me.

I had begun with Talk Page guidance. After that was ignored, I began adding, as an expert, to the article, in hopes of guiding it with a knowledge-based framework. Howard C. Berkowitz 19:27, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

An author in the sense that you are authoring the article, which made you a party to the dispute. I don't enjoy this job. D. Matt Innis 19:37, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

Again, Editors are restricted in the Approval process. An Editor who is authoring, in an article of their workgroup, is not an equal party. Jensen and I were equal parties when having our Military argument; the only Constable intervention was for revert wars or personal insults. Deal with it or get a formal rule. Howard C. Berkowitz 19:51, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

Well, hopefully our audience understands more about each of our rationale. I think it is obvious that we both want CZ to succeed and we both have different ideas of how to make that happen. Let's get that charter finished so our Citizens can actually have a say in their own system. This is your talk page, so I won't bother you anymore. D. Matt Innis 20:01, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

Matt, how can you say that I told her not to use the sandbox? Didn't you read my comments? I clearly said that the text could be COPIED to her sandbox for her use. I said that I didn't think it should be MOVED to the sandbox, two entirely different things! When I said "hold off", I was CLEARLY saying, "Hold off on MOVING it until we decide what to do as per the Talk page", to which I referred people. Hayford Peirce 20:13, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

Hayford, I understood what you said, but put yourself in her shoes. When I read your comment on the now archived talk page, it seemed to confirm that she shouldn't consider working in her sandbox and then pasting it back, which I happen to agree with. But, what do you think that told her? D. Matt Innis 20:19, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

(undent)I agree with Howard here. Being an author does not mean that there is any restriction on the Editor role. In fact the CZ:Editor Policy even makes this clear when it says "When an editor has made a certain edit, and has specifically requested that some limited portion of text should not be changed (or that it must not be changed in certain limited ways), then authors should respect the request."

Where the dispute is content based, the Editor has the final say unless and until their decision is appealed. This is the case even when said Editor is also an author for that article. Decisions on what content should be in mainspace is obviously a content decision, and therefore one to be made by an Editor. If Mary wished to work on the article in private she was free to *copy* the article into her sandbox or a word processor. Although Hayford had made a comment that could have been mistakenly interpreted as "do not use sandboxes", this could easily have been cleared up.

I agree that the call for a CZ ban was undeserved. Milt had far less extreme options available to him, including banning her from editing the article. Also, despite what I said above, I believe that Matt acted in what he believed to be the best interests of CZ and I believe that he thought his actions were justified under the rules that currently stand. --Chris Key 20:24, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

Chris, I agree that Matt thought he was justified. The matter, however, was not so urgent that he could not have proposed the action on the talk page, or at least emailed the involved Editors. I can't guess when he determined that she was having a problem using a word processor and replacing en bloc — that literally hadn't occurred to me — but I do think a reasonable interim Constable editor would be to have asked the Author, perhaps by email, if she was aware of the Editor requests and deliberately ignoring them. Consider that there eventually were a number of posts on how we should collaborate, rather than learning how we do collaborate.

In other words, both Milt and Matt had less extreme options available. Milt did not have enforcement power. The lesson here, I think, is when there is a borderline behavior/content issue, don't guess. Howard C. Berkowitz 20:34, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

Dictionary attack

Is that one ready for approval? Sandy Harris 03:03, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

You've Been a Busy Beaver

Noticed all the edits you've made concerning medicine. I wish I had your energy. My little additions to the Neutropenia article took about 12 hours research and two hours writing. My kids friends said I looked tired. I guess I am. In the old days, I used to write on average five news articles a day. This last article took me a day and a half. LOL!

Mary Ash 03:52, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

Don't forget the military -- we cover life and death here, as well as computer life. :-)

Some of the medical articles are meant to fill in redlinks in neutropenia. You'll see that I tend to start with multiple short articles, linked through the Related Articles subpages. Howard C. Berkowitz 03:59, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for filling in the blanks. I know a bit about the subject as I've had bouts of leukopenia and neutropenia. Never had a official DX except I have Idiopathic Leukopenia (my family doc says that stands for I don't know} which dips into neutropenia once in awhile. I knew most this stuff as being a good reporter started researching. I had to dig out the "facts" to back it up. When I was in college my biology teacher wanted me to go to medical school as I was very good at biology. I never did as I loved writing more. Fortunately I married an engineer who supports me :-) Nice chatting! BTW am I doing better on the talk page indents? I'm trying to learn. Also, I did some online searching and discovered Citizendium is probably not going to succeed do you think that's possible?

Mary Ash 04:17, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

Most important that you greet new military editor

Howard, I think you will have a great deal in common with new author and editor Paul Shankland ! -- Milton Beychok 05:53, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

@@ Line 836: / Line 836: @@
 [[User:Mary Ash|Mary Ash]] 04:17, 30 July 2010 (UTC)
+== Most important that you greet new military editor ==
+Howard, I think you will have a great deal in common with new author and editor [[User:Paul Shankland|Paul Shankland]] !  -- [[User:Milton Beychok|Milton Beychok]] 05:53, 30 July 2010 (UTC)