User talk:Stephen Ewen

*Category:Help requests

Stephen Ewen

Current talk page

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 Where Steve lives it is approximately: 09:25

Hello

Whirr...whir...click....Hel-lo fa-ther, thankyou for creating me. I have been running diagnostic tests on myself and concluded I am a bit poorly. Please see my user and talk pages for details.....click. --ImageUploadBot 09:24, 30 November 2007 (CST)

Stephen, I think I'm about there with the Commonist configuration. see User talk:ImageUploadBot. It seems to work ok for files under the 150Kb upload warning size and simply fails to upload anything above that. There's a bit of a loose end to translate the low german error messages, but all of the default commons, wikipedia config files all carry the same messages, so it's probably not critical. Perhaps you might have a go and we can compare notes? My next test is to see whether we actually need the bot account with Commonplace and Commonist. regards --Russ McGinn 19:00, 3 December 2007 (CST)

It seems Commonplace needs either a username with no spaces or a bot account whereas Commonist works fine with standard user accounts. Could we get Larry to change the permissions for the bot account to make it a standard user to test this?--Russ McGinn 19:53, 3 December 2007 (CST)

Awesome! I'll giver her a whirl soon. Stephen Ewen 21:00, 3 December 2007 (CST)

No go on my end. Of course, if the developer used more normal language, it'd help tremendously. What the @#$&* he means by "$HOME/.commonist/" is just boggling.

I am quite sure that "$HOME" means the location of the commonist-0.3.17 folder, but how to create a folder beginning with a period (.commonist) is beyond me and something Windows, at least, rejects; so he must mean but is not saying SITE.commonist, as in citizendium.commonist. If I am correct here, still no go.

The directions say,

1. unpack lib/mwapi.jar from the unpacked binary zip into a new directory
2. look for commons.family and commons.site in this directory
3. create a directory $HOME/.commonist/family
4. copy commons.family to $HOME/.commonist/family/NAME.family
5. copy commons.site to $HOME/.commonist/family/NAME.site
6. adapt these two files.

No problem on unpacking and placing, of course, but that pesky "$HOME/.commonist/" is still the trip-up. Also, what "adapt these files" means is not clear.

So trial and error. I adapted the contents of citizendium.family and citizendium.site as you showed in the Bot talk page, but I am left to wonder about whether "adapt these files" means to also rename commons.family and commons.site to citizendium.family and citizendium.site; so I tried both, but neither way works.

I have licenses.txt adapted fine. But the huge hangup for me is getting the program to recognize it. The documentation states, "If $HOME/.commonist/licenses.txt exists, it overrides settings in etc/licenses.txt." Again, if he means but is not saying SITE.commonist, as in citizendium.commonist, this thing should be whirring, but it still does not recognize the folder when I try that.

So I'm stuck. And I can promise to write some very clear directions once we get this thing going!

Stephen Ewen 23:28, 3 December 2007 (CST)

IF the bot was not inherently designed to run on a windows platform (it looks like it was designed more for unix; "/Home", "/etc", are common files in *nix user home directories), then what you will have to do is go into the source and replace every instance of "$HOME/.commonist" with "$HOME/commmonist". Also I'm sure $HOME on a unix account would be something like /usr/username. --Robert W King 00:02, 4 December 2007 (CST)

I don't think that's necessary Robert. Stephen, I didn't touch the licenses.txt file.-

1. I downloaded commonist-0.3.17.zip from http://djini.de/software/commonist/ and then unzipped it to it's default location (make sure winzip is configured to extract with path information). In my case it extracted to C:\commonist-0.3.17.
2. Browse to C:\commonist-0.3.17\bin and run the commonist.bat file. The first time this runs it creates the .commonist directory in C:\Documents and Settings\MCGINNR\.commonist (MCGINNR is my windows profile - so substitute your own).
3. Shut down commonist.
4. The .commonist directory only contains a subdirectory called 'cache' - create another directory called family in .commonist so that the path is C:\Documents and Settings\MCGINNR\.commonist\family
5. Create the citizendium.family and citizendium.site files from the user talk:ImageUploadBot page.
6. Commonist should be good to go now - just run it from the batch file in C:\commonist-0.3.17\bin

Alternatively, you could create the .commonist directory using the command prompt (found by clicking 'start' then 'run' and then typing 'cmd'). Type the following into the command prompt:-

1. cd C:\Documents and Settings\MCGINNR
2. mkdir .commonist
3. cd .commonist
4. mkdir family

Try that, see how you get on. You're right, the instruction are terrible! I reckon we should get the thing going over here and then send the developer a) Our .family and .site files b) A more expansive version of the license.txt file. PS. I was wondering what kind of categories I should tag my recent images with? Architecture workgroup? Taj Mahal? Russ McGinn's images? Flickr Images? Any ideas? Regards --Russ McGinn 04:03, 4 December 2007 (CST)

Be bold image

I can't believe you found a use for that. --Robert W King 17:33, 3 December 2007 (CST)

HTMLets extension

See http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:HTMLets. Who do we talk to get extensions installed? --Robert W King 00:44, 4 December 2007 (CST)

Make your case on the citizendium-tools@lists.purdue.edu list and CC to bugs@citizendium.org. What do you have in mind for this? Two making the case are better. ;-) Stephen Ewen

the Upload wizard, the image categorization game, and anything else that comes across. --Robert W King 00:56, 4 December 2007 (CST)

Make it, I'll second. Stephen Ewen 01:00, 4 December 2007 (CST)

#ifexist

Stephen, have you seen this at WP? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2007-12-03/Software_issues It concerns the #ifexist function that we use for getting the attribution tags into images - its all a bit over my head I'm afraid but looks like we should be using Special:Prefixindex instead. Regards --Russ McGinn 11:12, 4 December 2007 (CST)

Yikes, let me read this carefully.... Stephen Ewen 11:33, 4 December 2007 (CST)

Image:TajInteriorJawab.jpg

No problem - please delete, it's a terrible quality and uploaded before I knew the rules re anonymity - actually what the deal with Image:Taj dec1.jpg - is "Skipthebudgie.org" ok? or should I see if I can find similar? I also need you to delete Image:Tajdec1.jpg (uploaded as part of the commonist trials). Many thanks. --Russ McGinn 11:43, 4 December 2007 (CST)

I'm right now asking someone to release a CC photo to replace.... Stephen Ewen 11:48, 4 December 2007 (CST)

"Skipthebudgie.org" is - well, how's it look? :-) A bet ol' Skip will let you know his name if asked. Stephen Ewen 23:13, 4 December 2007 (CST)

Flickr

Can we use any images from Flickr? Or are there only a specific subset we can use? Specifically I was thinking this might be useful for Aleta's calla lily article but I can't figure out whether there is a real name for the user that uploaded it. Chris Day (talk) 01:57, 5 December 2007 (CST)

This photo is not under a Creative Commons license, but is copyright all rights reserved; and, there is no real name. I'll approach the flickr user to get it released under the usable terms: under a CC license of the author's choice or by permission if that fails, and the real name of the author. Thanks for the alert. :-) Stephen Ewen 02:03, 5 December 2007 (CST)

Alright, thanks for the quick reply, this is what I was expecting but just wanted to get a conformation. So the short list is that we need a real name and the right CC license? Is this written down somewhere already? Sorry to be lazy tracking this down. Thanks in advance :) Chris Day (talk) 02:06, 5 December 2007 (CST)

It needs to be written down more clearly, see http://en.citizendium.org/wiki?title=Special:Upload&uselang=flickr for now. It's implicit that we can use photos by permission if freely licensed material is not available or is poor. Stephen Ewen 02:14, 5 December 2007 (CST)

That's useful, I didn't see it since i had not attempted an upload yet. I look forward to trying out the new wizard! Assuming I can find a photo to upload ;) Chris Day (talk) 02:18, 5 December 2007 (CST)

The author has declined, the first time ever this has happened by a flickr user. Stephen Ewen 01:21, 8 February 2008 (CST)

Argument brewing

Hi Steve--or someone else--would you please have a look at user_talk:Aleta Curry#dance and comment if you need to? Thanks Aleta Curry 13:45, 5 December 2007 (CST)

I gave a short comment on your Talk page, Aleta. Probably the best way forward is to put some text there and I can offer my opinion on dealing with ethnic and cultural issues.--Martin Baldwin-Edwards 15:27, 5 December 2007 (CST)

How come the upload wizard

...doesn't have a non-commercial option? Aleta Curry 18:06, 8 December 2007 (CST)

It does. Read a tad more carefully. Stephen Ewen 18:11, 8 December 2007 (CST)

I'm looking under "I am the author" and I don't see it. I'll admit to being blind. Aleta Curry 21:20, 8 December 2007 (CST)

There are two links under there. It's the second. Stephen Ewen 21:31, 8 December 2007 (CST)

Never would have found it. Needs an explanatory note earlier. Interesting that you make those choices for people. Aleta Curry 14:53, 9 December 2007 (CST)

The advice there is grounded in facts about the field of photography. There are lots of photos available out there. If you think about it, I think you'll agree that we don't really want poorer quality photos under restrictive terms when superior photos of the same thing are readily available elsewhere. Compare this with these. No one is going to care one minute of a wit to use a poorer quality photo commercially when higher quality photos that already permit it are readily available elsewhere, or when a superior photo exists under the same terms. There is a correlation among licensing and quality and all this does is recognize this fact and work with it, not create it as a fact. Stephen Ewen 15:16, 9 December 2007 (CST)

"image"

I had been wondering if that usage was clear. "Image" in that context is not being used for its primary definition. In fact it's #12 on the list at reference.com: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=image "Interpretive representation" doesn't really do it justice, as it is a religious "image" on par with those in the Catholic Church. Can you think of a better way to clarify this? The only other term I can think of is "idol" but I don't like the negative connotations of that word. --Joe Quick 12:47, 12 December 2007 (CST)

You know, I think we're going to run into the same problem with the use of the word "cult" at folk saint, which I'm currently studying up for. The problem is that the most precise term makes use of a non-dominant or secondary definition that most people will probably not pick up on immediately. --Joe Quick 15:59, 12 December 2007 (CST)

How about the word "icon" ? Or "pictograph"? --Robert W King 16:03, 12 December 2007 (CST)

"Icon" might work, but that terms refers specifically to a saint, as far as I know, so it would probably be inappropriate as the Tío isn't actually a saint. "Pictograph" doesn't work simply because these images are statues. The article actually uses "statue" a couple of times, but that term leaves out the functional purpose of the image. I asked on the forums. --Joe Quick 16:19, 12 December 2007 (CST)

What do principle authors call the, uh, things we're talkin' about? Stephen Ewen 17:52, 12 December 2007 (CST)

Good question. Nash occasionally calls them "images" but never "icons" and Taussig calls them "icons" pretty often but never "images." All authors prefer to refer to the Tío himself rather than the sculpted clay that represent him. This improves my feelings about "icon" somewhat but that term is only a little bit better when it comes to avoiding non-primary definitions that are likely to confuse people.

I'm starting to think that the answer might be to simply wikilink the terms that might confuse so that people are clued in about their importance. That might improve the "cult" situation too. For now, I'll go change it to "icon." --Joe Quick 23:54, 12 December 2007 (CST)

Please intervene

See this and Template:Fact. I propose that this template is never ever to be used here at CZ. --Robert W King 15:37, 12 December 2007 (CST)

Deleted, thanks. Stephen Ewen 15:48, 12 December 2007 (CST)

Then It should be stated it explicitly. One of the biggest problems that I have with CZ, and Larry is aware of it, is that rather than being "the world's most trusted knowledge base", CZ is, at this point, fundamentally anecdotal and far from scholarly. --Michael J. Formica 07:33, 13 December 2007 (CST)

"We take a more sensible approach to citing sources. The editors we have on board actually create the sort of sources that Wikipedia cites. We do cite sources, of course, but we have a sensible approach to doing so. We cite sources because doing so helps the reader. We do not cite sources in order to settle internal disputes, or to "prove" a point to contributors. As seasoned researchers, we know that people can find sources for all sorts of ridiculous claims."[1] Stephen Ewen 10:31, 13 December 2007 (CST)

"we know that people can find sources for all sorts of ridiculous claims" - true. And, as an editor, I accept that the above is the position we've taken. The situation it creates, however, rather than begging the topic addressed in the quote above, can be found here...Road rage/Sandbox. --Michael J. Formica 11:18, 13 December 2007 (CST)

Not sure I see the issue. So a bunch of stuff was moved out of article space because it was unfit to go there. As it should be. Stephen Ewen 12:38, 13 December 2007 (CST)

Ah, of course not. Thanks for your input. --Michael J. Formica 16:12, 13 December 2007 (CST)

Re 'wiki-converting'

Stephen: Regarding your volunteering to 'wiki-convert' word-processor files from subscribers, please see: http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/CZ:Wiki-converting. For tracking, use section with your name as title. --Anthony.Sebastian 19:38, 18 December 2007 (CST)

Diego Rivera

I'd like to use one or more of these works by Diego Rivera in the Calla Lily article but can't figure out who, if anyone, has the rights to them: [2], [3], [4]. Any ideas? --Joe Quick 02:00, 19 December 2007 (CST)

I'll look tomorrow, time for ZZZzzs. BTW, an FYI: Mexico has the least liberal public domain laws in the world: The life of the author plus 100 years! Stephen Ewen 02:14, 19 December 2007 (CST)

Here's the info for the first: http://www.moma.org/about_moma/site/index.html. Given MOMA's explicit encouragement of fair use, you might consider using that image and following the pattern at Butler in the "Butlers in art" section. Stephen Ewen 02:33, 19 December 2007 (CST)

Thanks. I must have spent an hour searching just to find out which museum it was in. No such luck on the other two (both of which I would prefer to this one, actually). Are reproduction/copyright rights transferred with the transfer of the original painting? That is, do Mexican copyright laws govern pieces donated to the MoMA by a Rockefeller? I think a similar question came up in regard to Waldo Peirce, but I don't remember if it was ever resolved. --Joe Quick 02:47, 19 December 2007 (CST)

Only an authoritative statement by a MOMA official would resolve this question. HOWEVER, all indication at the website is that the copyright was transferred (sometimes they are, sometimes they aren't). For whatever it is worth, given the museum's explicit and unusually detailed encouragement to fair use, and lack of a Terms of Use contract that binds users of the MOMA site to some stated terms unfriendly to our use of the image, I myself would not hesitate to use this particular image under fair use, in a context of commentary and criticisms of which the "Butlers in art" section at Butler gives an example. Stephen Ewen 02:56, 19 December 2007 (CST)

I'm actually not too worried about that image. In fact, I wouldn't worry a whole lot about any of these because they would clearly be covered by fair use since I want to use them to illustrate Rivera's use of the flower in his art. It was meant as a more general question. That said, I just noticed that all of the images in the gallery at diegorivera.com are listed as copyright Javier Rivera no matter where the originals hang.

I found the owner of another one: [5]. It's an individual. We'll probably need to claim fair use for all of them. What I don't understand is how so many sites can offer to sell me posters of these works. I suppose we really ought to use the nude featuring Frida with an armful of calla lilies since it's so famous, but I really just don't like that one... --Joe Quick 03:34, 19 December 2007 (CST)

Szasz pic

Snazzy. Thanks! --Michael J. Formica 08:08, 19 December 2007 (CST)

Hey! Robert Mack 03:56, 20 December 2007 (CST)

Merry Christmas!

Say, could you go through the CZ:Templates page and identify any media-asset templates which are either redundant, obsolete (we created a LOT of them while the subpages stuff was going on), draft, or just not needed? I've got a fair handle on organizing them but it would take hours to find out which ones fall into those categories and with any luck maybe you would be able to identify them straight up. --Robert W King 20:44, 22 December 2007 (CST)

Thanks - and Happy Holidays

Thank you Steve... it was an honor to serve. Happy Holidays! Eric M Gearhart

Thanks for tidying up the image. Merry Christmas! (Chunbum Park 13:27, 24 December 2007 (CST))

No prob. Use the Upload Wizard and you'll almost always have less to fill in. ;-) Stephen Ewen 13:43, 24 December 2007 (CST)

Oh, did I crop any part of the image? Wait, I didn't. I just gave the wrong link. http://flickr.com/photos/jpellgen/382235193/ Thanks for checking. (Chunbum Park 09:06, 26 December 2007 (CST))

I'm trying to change he copyright of this picture 1 to public domain. But on Japanese invasions of Korea article 2 it shows CC name. Shouldn't it be just PD? (Chunbum Park 09:32, 26 December 2007 (CST))

See how to fix it for next time here. Stephen Ewen 12:27, 26 December 2007 (CST)

Thanks again. (Chunbum Park 12:45, 26 December 2007 (CST))

Ah, I see what the problem was. You can see it too. Thanks for pointing it out. :-) Stephen Ewen 13:02, 26 December 2007 (CST)

Thanks for making all the credit pages. I thought they came out automatically. (Chunbum Park 13:03, 26 December 2007 (CST))

They almost come out automatically if you use the CZ:Upload-Wizard. It's still incomplete for a lot of stuff, though. Stephen Ewen 13:05, 26 December 2007 (CST)

Forums pic

Hi, Steve, I'm absolutely baffled by my inability to get the Forums to run my picture. I've been screwing around with this for hours now. It seems to me that in the Profile I should be able to checkmark "I have my own personal picture" and then insert http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Image:HP2.jpg, which is what my picture is for both my user page and for the article about me. But nothing I do will make my picture show up. I can put in Bob Morley or any of the other pix in the category above, but not me personally. What's going on here? Everyone else seems to have pix, even some total beginners.... (And, by the way, WHY are those other pix of Actors and Musicians allowed to be inserted!? Hayford Peirce 21:13, 26 December 2007 (CST)

Hey, I finally got it! Thanks for the help -- it's still pretty recondite, I would say, for a non-expert! Hayford Peirce 21:44, 26 December 2007 (CST)

Thanks for the boost. By the way, as I see here, we're allowed to have a picture of ourselves at our user page? (Chunbum Park 15:24, 27 December 2007 (CST))

Absolutely, under whatever license terms you wish. Stephen Ewen 15:27, 27 December 2007 (CST)

Easy image changes

Yeah, I know. But it's sure cumbersome to convert *old* ones! Although I think that now that I've figured out there are really only *two* steps, I can manage the rest of my old images.... Hayford Peirce 21:27, 27 December 2007 (CST)

Hey, WONDERFUL!! I hadn't seen that you were upgrading all those others. Wow! Grazie, danke, merci, gracias, maruru (Tahitian), THANKS! Hayford Peirce 21:31, 27 December 2007 (CST)

Special character icons

Hey, Steve, this is *very* mysterious. I told you last night that I had *never* seen those rascally icons such as the Redirect one. So then, last night, I did see them. But now, today, as I have been editing, that line of icons is absolutely NOT there. I see a green bar across the screen that says "Special Characters" and then below that all the various language letters and things like >ref etc etc. But absolutely no icons. What on earth is going on? Hayford Peirce 12:37, 29 December 2007 (CST)

Yup. I'm really an idiot this morning!!! Geez. I'm just so used to not using them, that my eye just passes over them, just as if they were pop-ups on the Internet! Thanks -- now I'll NEVER forget where they are! Hayford Peirce 12:44, 29 December 2007 (CST)

Yep, tis amazing how our brains begin to deselect info in our environment we consider irrelevant. Of course, that our brains do this is a wonderful thing. It's just never infallible! Stephen Ewen 12:51, 29 December 2007 (CST)

Formatting question

A new member has created http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Philip_Marlowe_and_His_Women and I'm trying to do a little reformatting. I've succeeded with everything except the four lines of poetry near the start of the article. I want to put the title of the poem just below the text AND indented somewhat, but I'm baffled. I've taken the blockquote out, and restored it, and I've been fiddling with various other things for 15 minutes and either I can't get the indents, or I get line breaks that I don't want, or I get NO line breaks between the 4 lines of poetry or, well, other problems. I want it to look like this:

Line one of text

Line two of text

Line three of text

Line four of text

Name of the damn poem

There are probably hidden formatting commands through the text because she imported it from some exterior file probably created with Word or some such. Is there a way around this? Thanks! Hayford Peirce 12:59, 29 December 2007 (CST)

Okie, I've seen what you've done. And I would never have figured that out! I basically just wanted to remove a lot of white space between the poetry lines and the title of poem below it. I'll take another look at what you've done and see if it is stuff I can remember for another occasion.... Thanks! Hayford Peirce 13:13, 29 December 2007 (CST)

Yes, there's a tool, but I wouldn't bother her with it. There's plenty of people around to do cleanup, and it usually just takes minutes, except when there are lots of footnoted references. In that case, all one has to do to go from MS Word to wikimarkup is

1. Save the Word file as HTML.
2. Open the resulting HTML file in Notepad.
3. Copy all of the text (CTL + A)
4. Paste it (CTL + V) into this and press "Convert HTML to wikimarkup".
5. Copy the result into the edit window for a new article and press Save. Done.

Strike all that. As you can see at CZ_Talk:Wiki-converting, the results are poor.

Stephen Ewen 13:46, 29 December 2007 (CST)

Yep, that ain't pretty! In some ways it's like optical scanning. I once had an old novel that I had typed on lined *English* paper, which has a slightly different size from American paper. An editor wanted it in modern form. I scanned a couple of pages with the best optical software I could find -- and discovered that it took me *longer* to correct all of the scanned copy than it did for me to simply retype the damn manuscript with WordPerfect. Which I did, little by little. Took me a month, I think, but it was less aggravating than the other way. Ditto with other, shorter things I've wanted to convert.... Hayford Peirce 13:55, 29 December 2007 (CST)

OpenOffice for wikiconverting?

The tool Zach pointed to is very poor at this point, see CZ Talk:Wiki-converting. I'll try to run tests with various tools to find the best. Stephen Ewen 13:48, 29 December 2007 (CST)

Steven: OpenOffice 2.3 claims its ‘writer’ component can save to MediaWiki format. See: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/New_Features_2.3#Chart

Anthony.Sebastian --Anthony.Sebastian 17:18, 29 December 2007 (CST)

P.S. Why does Anthony.Sebastian 17:18, 29 December 2007 (CST) or --Anthony.Sebastian 17:18, 29 December 2007 (CST) NOT show link for me? See this in editor.

You have the short-famed "Matt D. Innis" bug! --Robert W King 21:22, 29 December 2007 (CST)

Anthony, go into my preferences > Misc and make sure Raw signatures (without automatic link) is NOT checked. Stephen Ewen 21:46, 29 December 2007 (CST)

Image without a license

Hi. This image is a screenshot of copyrighted software, and currently doesn't have a license. I didn't know where to report it, so I posted it here. I know we're not allowed fair use images yet, so I guess it shouuld be deleted. Oliver Smith 18:08, 29 December 2007 (CST)

Thanks, I just shrunk it way down, and in that case used it under fair use. Stephen Ewen 20:36, 29 December 2007 (CST)

newspost

Do you want to write something for the newspost? --Robert W King 16:31, 30 December 2007 (CST)

Sure, got something particular in mind? Stephen Ewen 16:32, 30 December 2007 (CST)

Um, how about something newsy? Say, your reflections of the project, or anything you want to make stand out; it's pretty open as it'll be issue #1. --Robert W King 16:34, 30 December 2007 (CST)

What's the deadline? Stephen Ewen 17:02, 30 December 2007 (CST)

Within the next day or two. It doesn't have to be very long, it can be brief. --Robert W King 17:08, 30 December 2007 (CST)

IFEXIST PAGENAME or PAGENAMEE

Which one is it supposed to be? --Robert W King 14:29, 31 December 2007 (CST)

The first is for internal links, the latter external (short for pagename + external). Stephen Ewen 16:07, 31 December 2007 (CST)

Another copyright query

The screenshot here is licensed under the GPL. However, on the desktop, it has the Steam icon, which isn't released under the GPL. Does this mean that the screneshot shouldn't be GPL'd? Oliver Smith 17:24, 31 December 2007 (CST)

See again. That's ought suffice. Stephen Ewen 17:55, 31 December 2007 (CST)

Ah, I just saw this message. I think the best solution would be to take a generic screenshot of GNOME containing 100% free software, preferably one showing the default GNOME icons, settings, and applications. --Joshua David Williams 18:23, 31 December 2007 (CST)

Image:Gnome_screenshot.png

I just noticed your edit to Gnome screenshot.png. This image was actually released under the GFDL. --Joshua David Williams 18:21, 31 December 2007 (CST)

I can't speak to Steam with out looking into it first, but the CZ Logo is NOT GFDL. Stephen Ewen 20:03, 31 December 2007 (CST)

What is the CZ logo? --Joshua David Williams 22:31, 31 December 2007 (CST)

This: Image:Czlogo.jpg. The screenshot can still be used as GFDL. The point is that someone cannot extract out the CZ logo and and adapt it with their own company name, and the like. Stephen Ewen 22:36, 31 December 2007 (CST)

Another comment: this is simply one of those cases where a single image has more than one layer of copyright. Stephen Ewen 05:23, 2 January 2008 (CST)

Moving an article

Hi Stephen, could you help me out and move Somatoform disorders to Somatoform disorder (along with the relevant subpages)? I'd rather not attempt to move the subpages and make a mess of it, so I'd really appreciate your help. Thanks. Richard Pettitt 15:39, 1 January 2008 (CST)

Done. You can see Special:Log/move to see the steps. Stephen Ewen 16:53, 1 January 2008 (CST)

Thanks so much. (And now that I've seen it done, I can do it in the future!) -Richard Pettitt 18:24, 1 January 2008 (CST)

A bug in Template:Image notes flickr2

The “see flickr profile at [...]” link is incorrect, it includes some extra characters. I was unable to find the bug, will you take a look? --Kjetil Ree 17:10, 1 January 2008 (CST)

Thanks, Kjetil. All debugged (I hope). Stephen Ewen 17:37, 1 January 2008 (CST)

Images created by pseudoanonymous Wikimedians

Hi again. May I delete images created by pseudoanonymous Wikimedians ([6] [7] [8] etc) at my own recognizance? Neither CZ:Article Deletion Policy nor CZ:Images#Images_from_Wikipedia.2C_Wikimedia_Commons.2C_Flickr.2C_Openphoto.net.2C_etc. mention what to do. Kjetil Ree 18:52, 1 January 2008 (CST)

Well, it's implicit that such images are deletable. However, I think its best to first tag with {{Cmediaflag}} and then try and/or give others time to fix or replace them over a reasonable but not too long period (How long? There's no policy except common sense at this point). For example, a bit of digging shows that Image:800px-Flag_of_South_Africa.svg.png by Commons user SKoop is Sebastian Koppehel. Image:Coat_of_arms_of_South_Africa.png from here need not reference any intermediary source at all, since one can quickly confirm it as nabbed from here. (Its just common sense to me but maybe ought be put into policy that if an image is obtained from B but B obtained it from A, then you reference A and not B). I've not looked closely at the others yet. Stephen Ewen 05:04, 2 January 2008 (CST)

troubleshoot

give me a list of steps to follow and I'll try to figure out what's going wrong.. --Robert W King 23:31, 1 January 2008 (CST)

I'll think I'll save that offer for next time. :-) I just deduced what MUST be the problem: Subpages for the Template namespace are not enabled in LocalSettings.php! Stephen Ewen 23:41, 1 January 2008 (CST)

Thank you for correcting my English

Thank you. --Paul Wormer 06:59, 3 January 2008 (CST)

New Functional template guidelines

How do you suppose that we should direct people to CZ:Templates/Guidelines if they choose to create a new template? --Robert W King 10:21, 3 January 2008 (CST)

Newberry Holdings

Can you find something that says whether the Newberry Library asserts reproduction rights over their collections? In particular, I'd like to use something from this, but I can't find anything on their site that tells me whether they're okay with that. --Joe Quick 00:30, 6 January 2008 (CST)

Not a thing. I'd therefore use it as {{PD-old}}. Stephen Ewen 01:09, 6 January 2008 (CST)

Thanks. That's what I was thinking. I'll probably be downtown this week, so I might just stop in and ask a librarian in person... --Joe Quick 01:34, 6 January 2008 (CST)

Treeview extension/template usage

Stephen-

In the interim, can you modify the treeview graphics to use the arrows and the dots that I drew up (instead of the old, outdated folder look) until something official has been created? (it also may be time to archive your user_talk!) --Robert W King 10:44, 7 January 2008 (CST)

Fossilization

Hi Stephen

Hope you are well! I would like to nominate Fossilization for approval - can you walk me through the steps?

Lee R. Berger 11:49, 7 January 2008 (CST)

Let's do it the easy way this time. Take what I just emailed you and use it to replace the text here and you're done. Stephen Ewen 12:03, 7 January 2008 (CST)

Areas of expertise only

I noticed that part of the form wants editors to check only their areas of expertise. However, the workgroup categories, like Category:Chemistry Editors just say "editors that joined group X". So why not just let them check their fields of interest like authors? That also lets editors start of being in categories they are interested in but don't have expertise, like authors. Aaron Schulz 13:23, 7 January 2008 (CST)

Maybe then I'm misunderstanding just what the function does. Let me create a dummy account. We just don't want them to become editors in everything they are interested in! Stephen Ewen 14:52, 7 January 2008 (CST)

I'm saying that the category pages don't say that the editors have to be experts in the topic in order to be included. It is literally just any editor that is on the group. Aaron Schulz 15:01, 7 January 2008 (CST)

See User:Tester_Tester_McTestertester. Dr. McTestertester checked 10 boxes and has thereby become an editor in each of those 10 areas. While the good doctor is a bright fellow, his actual area of expertise, the area for which he is qualified as an editor, is Mathematics (he runs tests). Yet when an author goes hunting for a Literature Editor to approve his article on War and Peace, he will run upon Dr. McTestertester's name listed at Category:Literature Editors and send him off this strangely received request to have his article nominated for approval. Yet Dr. McTestertester is only a hobbyist with literature, an author in that area. :-D

But I see the issue. We want editors to know they can author about any of those area they want! For now I added "(you'll still be able to author outside that area, though)" to MediaWiki:Requestaccount-areas-text. Stephen Ewen 17:33, 7 January 2008 (CST)

Another thing maybe ... something like {{Czcategories}} could be added at the bottom of editor userpages (that template has to literally be placed at the bottom). I added it to User:Tester_Tester_McTestertester for demonstration. Stephen Ewen 17:52, 7 January 2008 (CST)

Hmmm. Dr. McTestertester's email stated "We're delighted to welcome you to the Citizendium as an author. That is something that could be hacked with uselang= to state "editor", but that's just how I first think because I can hack but not code. :-) Stephen Ewen 18:15, 7 January 2008 (CST)

Working on that. Aaron Schulz 22:13, 7 January 2008 (CST)

So the categories with workgroup editors should probably not just say "This page lists all the editors who have joined the Literature Workgroup." but "This page lists all the editors who have joined the Literature Workgroup. All of them have expertise in this field." or something. Aaron Schulz 22:13, 7 January 2008 (CST)

Yes, you have the right meaning and your re-wording does make things more clear. The current wording seems confusing, now that you've pointed it out. Stephen Ewen 22:47, 7 January 2008 (CST)

thanks!

Thank you for the welcome Stephen!

another question on nominations

Hi Stephen,

Is there any way to update my nomination to the present version of [Fossilization] that you and others have so kindly added to? Otherwise, the approved version will be outdated if it is on the 7th (nice to see how nomination motivates a bunch of action though!-). Also, do you have a skype phone number - I'd like to chat with you one on one sometime. You can email me the number if possible.

Lee R. Berger 08:10, 11 January 2008 (CST)

Financing human rights (...)

Hi,

I forgot to tell on the talk page that I contacted the author of this page:

I read with interest the page you created (http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Financing_human_rights_and_full_employment). I'd like to see you enrich it with more explanations, references, etc.

I'm afraid it could be deleted enventually because it looks more like an opinion or an essay. This is, IMO, easy to fix.

Thanks for your time,

Pierre-Alain

I should have mentioned this on the talk page; OTOH, I was (and still am) hopeful to receive a prompt response.

I must tell, honestly, that, when I came accross this page, I found the title was quite original for an encyclopedia article, and assumed that it was considered acceptable (or tolerable) CZ content. Would you say it is?

I'd rather see accepted concepts and terms (minimal citizenship revenue (roughly translated from french) is an accepted concept/term belonging to a whole group of concepts that can put flesh to the bone of this (skeletal ;-) ) article!

Please let me know the timeframe for the development/standardization of this article that I should have in mind. If this should be dealt with very quickly, I might be unable to assist in the process.

Pierre-Alain Gouanvic 13:39, 13 January 2008 (CST)

Okay, thanks Pierre. Hopefully the prod will do the trick soon. Stephen Ewen 19:04, 13 January 2008 (CST)

Copyright

Stephen, the complexities of copyright befuddle me. In light of Larry's recent fiat, does this mean I can or can't upload this image from Flickr? Cheers. --Russ McGinn 08:24, 16 January 2008 (CST)

The license seems to be creative commons, non-commercial, no derivatives. --Russ McGinn 08:38, 16 January 2008 (CST)

Yes, version 2.0. You'll find that option at the "from flickr" option at CZ:Upload-Wizard. Stephen Ewen 09:44, 16 January 2008 (CST)

Ah! great, the mists are receding....Cheers. --Russ McGinn 11:22, 16 January 2008 (CST)

Scheme/constructivism

That's funny! I wrote the stub on constructivism because I was unfamailiar with the term without a qualifier, and wanted to differentiate it from the social construction of reality, social constructionism, and social constructivism...thanks for the link. Maybe you could fill it in a bit. Blessings... --Michael J. Formica 06:33, 17 January 2008 (CST)

Personality disorder cycle

The personality disorder cycle is now complete. Articles for all currently identified primary personality disorders have been added, along with internal references to the Personality disorder, the Cluster desriptions, and a template detailing both the clusters, and their associated disorders. Feel free to jump in! ...said Michael J. Formica (talk) (Please sign your talk page posts by simply adding four tildes, ~~~~.)

Dead PC

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo --Robert W King 23:22, 18 January 2008 (CST)

It's the motherboard. The thing won't even boot into safe mode.  :-( It's due for replacement, though. Stephen Ewen 23:24, 18 January 2008 (CST)

LOC on Flickr

Hey Stephen, know you are busy with the computer problems, so no rush with this. Since you are seem to be the resident image guru, I figured I'd ask you. As you may or may not be aware of, the Library of Congress has begun hosting images on Flickr that they believe to no longer have copyright restrictions on them. [9][10] I just wanted to confirm that if I choose to use any of these images, I would still be using the Flickr upload template? Thanks. --Todd Coles 10:21, 19 January 2008 (CST)

As a general rule, always source images to their providing source and not the middleman. So if there are images sourced to the LOC at flickr, the Commons, or what have you, the images would be sourced to LOC. In the long run, this keeps things much more tidy and friendly for reusers.

I plan to make a super easy page for uploading images from the Library of Congress, but for now just go to Special:Upload and select "Library of Congress 'no known restrictions'" as the license.

Stephen Ewen 11:35, 19 January 2008 (CST)

CZ Live

I must be getting old or rusty since I have no idea how to now add CZ live to the bottom of my article on Palau. Help!

Lee R. Berger 23:20, 24 January 2008 (CST)

• Never mind -Todd Coles helped me out.

Lee R. Berger 03:02, 25 January 2008 (CST)

Please be aware

of this... --Robert W King 20:50, 25 January 2008 (CST)

Thanks. Based upon this it appears to me an innocent mistake. Stephen Ewen 22:22, 25 January 2008 (CST)

Robert, please report anything that might require Constabulary action not to Steve's user talk page, but to constables@citizendium.org. Thanks. --Larry Sanger 22:43, 25 January 2008 (CST)

Coulomb's picture

Hi Stephen, I wrote about Charles-Augustin de Coulomb and WP has a painting [11]. Could we use that too? Thanks. --Paul Wormer 09:54, 1 February 2008 (CST)

Thanks for Coulomb

Stephen, that is a nice one, thank you.--Paul Wormer 00:43, 2 February 2008 (CST)

Regarding Image:Motiva Petroleum Refinery.jpg

Stephen:

My primary reason for having uploaded a cropped version of the photo was that I wanted to emphasize the pollution plume from the refinery's flare ... because the photo was to be used in the Air pollution dispersion terminology article.

When you revised my upload to the larger size, the flare's plume is now barely visible in the photo in that article ... which defeats my whole purpose for uploading the photo.

As a compromise, I would like to upload my version again under a different name (Image:Motiva Refinery Flare.jpg). In other words, there would be two versions available. Would that be agreeable with you? - Milton Beychok 10:32, 2 February 2008 (CST)

I see, sure. But you might find a better photo. Stephen Ewen 11:08, 2 February 2008 (CST)

Thanks for agreeing to my compromise. A great many of those photos in Flickr showing white plumes are merely steam ... which is not pollution. Others are nighttime pictures of steam, where the steam looks black. In any event, thanks again. - Milton Beychok 11:22, 2 February 2008 (CST)

What about these:

• http://www.flickr.com/photos/juska/2155253182/sizes/l/
• http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesdale10/2053341716/sizes/l/
• http://www.flickr.com/photos/mspoggis/1318562173/sizes/l/

Stephen Ewen 12:09, 2 February 2008 (CST)

Those are good. When I write an article on Flares, which I will, I will certainly consider them. Regards, - Milton Beychok 13:21, 2 February 2008 (CST)

Confession

I am secretly hoping that I'll overcome your "most time online" on the forums; I simply could not hide it anymore now that it's so close. --Robert W King 21:42, 4 February 2008 (CST)

My number is probably inflated. I sometime leave the forum open in a browser for days. Stephen Ewen 21:46, 4 February 2008 (CST)

Move it, buddy!

Hey Steve, Rite of Passage shouldn't be capitalized but a lowercase (blank) page already exists so I can't move it. Help? --Joe Quick 00:54, 7 February 2008 (CST)

Ooo, that does sound messy. I'll straighten it out. Stephen Ewen 00:57, 7 February 2008 (CST)

Thanks much. -Joe Quick 01:01, 7 February 2008 (CST)

Re CZ:How to submit articles in word processor format

Stephen, thanks for offering to help setting up the above-titled CZ page. I will check back in a while to view and work with your fix.

--Slow learner, Anthony.Sebastian Anthony.Sebastian 18:57, 8 February 2008 (CST)

Problem with signature

Stephen, four tildes no longer appear as a link for me, either in Firefox or IE7.

I always have to type by hand [[User:Anthony.Sebastian|Anthony.Sebastian]] then the four tildes to get the date-time. Here's how ~~~~ appear:

Anthony.Sebastian 19:04, 8 February 2008 (CST)

Go into my preferences, top right, and click on the Misc tab. Make sure Raw signatures (without automatic link) is NOT checked and click Save. Let me know if this works. Stephen Ewen 19:08, 8 February 2008 (CST)

Followed your instructions. First test: --Anthony.Sebastian 19:17, 8 February 2008 (CST)

Checked results in "preview": it works. How do I get it to show link to my Talk page?

The ability to set that no longer works. Stephen Ewen 19:47, 8 February 2008 (CST)

Nice work in professionalizing the CZ:How to submit.... page.Anthony.Sebastian 22:38, 8 February 2008 (CST)

Template

Hi, I was wondering if there were any differences between here and Wikipedia in terms of making templates. I had some trouble earlier. Andrew Sylvia 00:07, 9 February 2008 (CST)

The rules are fuzzy, frankly, and not written, and yes that needs remedy. If you tell me what you have in mind, I can better advise you for the right now. Stephen Ewen 01:03, 9 February 2008 (CST)

Less about rules and more about technical issues on how to do it. I'd like to put all of New Hampshire state law onto there, and having a template to navigate them would make things easier, but i'm not an expert at making the technical parts past the wiki markup. Andrew Sylvia 19:29, 9 February 2008 (CST)

I see what you mean now. Template-making is basically low level programming so there's a learning curve, for sure. Best thing I can tell you is to start with the Mediawiki help pages, and that once you get started and others can see what you're up to, some help might plug in. Stephen Ewen 21:10, 9 February 2008 (CST)

Welcome and name change

Dear Stephen, thank you very much for your welcome message. I'm very happy to be able to contribute to this wonderful project and looking forward to start writing as soon as possible. Just a small question though -- would it be possible for me to change my username from "Rafael de Sales Azevedo" to just "Rafael Azevedo"? I did not realise when I registered that this would be my login name as well. Not only "Rafael Azevedo" is the way I sign in my blog for instance, but it would look better, in my opinion, and it would also make it things easier when it comes to logging in! :)

Once again, thanks for your warm welcome! Rafael de Sales Azevedo 04:18, 9 February 2008 (CST)

Congradulations

about 15 people use Template:Usertime-text! See this link ;) --Robert W King 08:49, 9 February 2008 (CST)

WP users using their real names

User talk:Andrew Sylvia#WP users using their real names

History approved pages

Stephen, please look here.--Paul Wormer 03:01, 10 February 2008 (CST)

What are you wanting me to see there, Paul? Stephen Ewen 03:04, 10 February 2008 (CST)

When do you sleep Stephen? This approved article shows Matt as author, not Milton. This is in contradiction to what you wrote a couple of days ago (and in contradiction to the article Butler that you mentioned as an example). --Paul Wormer 03:38, 10 February 2008 (CST)

That has to do with how Matt did the mechanics of approval. Just talk to him about it. Stephen Ewen 05:24, 10 February 2008 (CST)

Bolognese revision

That's terrific! I've taken a look at how you did it, but I dunno if I'll be able to learn any lessons from it. Thanks! Hayford Peirce 21:50, 10 February 2008 (CST)

But no matter where I look, I can't find an "Other versions" thingee to either view or click on.... Hayford Peirce 21:57, 10 February 2008 (CST)

All fixed now. Also, note that when you click on individual images they lead to the individual image now - I used the image map extension: http://www.wikihow.com/Use-the-MediaWiki-ImageMap-Extension Stephen Ewen 22:09, 10 February 2008 (CST)

I still can't find anything that relates to "other versions". Also, in the caption under the pictures, I've been trying to put boldface on the first sentence, "A typical Bolognese sauce preparation." but am unable to do so.... Hayford Peirce 22:14, 10 February 2008 (CST)

Other versions is there now, see Image:Bolognese_sauce_preparation_sm.jpg. I'll try to add formatting but I've already found the extension freaks out with formattings. Stephen Ewen 22:18, 10 February 2008 (CST)

Nope, I *still* don't see anything about other versions, no matter where I search! And I figured that there was probably a problem with the extension formatting -- no big deal. I'm off to bed, but will see tomorrow if "other versions" shows up, hehe. Best! Hayford Peirce 22:36, 10 February 2008 (CST)

I see you got the bold in, and I'll try to remember that! Now I'm really off to bed! Hayford Peirce 22:38, 10 February 2008 (CST)

Okie, it's the next day and now everything seems to be working perfectly! I see the "other version", and by clicking on the individual picture it then expands. Terrific! Hayford Peirce 11:49, 11 February 2008 (CST)

Brown Hyaena mess

Hey Steve, can you take care of the speedydeletes I currently have for various forms of "brown hyena? I am sorry to say that I put in too many speedydeletes, only to find that I could eventually fix the problems with only a few, so you might see more than needed in the "Recent Changes" pages. The only ones that need removing are the subpages of "brown hyena", ie the talk, approval and metadata page. The main brown hyena can remain as a redirect to "brown hyaena". The three forms were a circular jungle for awhile! David E. Volk 17:06, 12 February 2008 (CST)

Thanks

Thanks muchly Steve, nice to pop my head 'round the door! John Stephenson 21:15, 13 February 2008 (CST)

Follow-up

Thanks Stephen. I really appreciate your effort. I'll get started on the uploading tomorrow and start adding more to the article subpages as well. The sound files idea sounds excellent. Meg Ireland 03:11, 15 February 2008 (CST)

Please delete an image I uploaded

Stephen, I uploaded earlier today Image:Perkins Triangle Distillation Setup.png. The I found that the image had a flaw as well is being mis-named (it should be Perkin ... not Perkins). So I uploaded this corrected, re-named version Image:Perkin Triangle Distillation Setup.png.

I drew both of the above versions myself and licensed both of them as PD-new. They are similar (but far from being exactly the same) to the image we tried to upload from Commons but could not, because the Wikipedian who drew it declined to give his real name.

Could you please delete Image:Perkins Triangle Distillation Setup.png, which is the flawed and misnamed version? Thanks in advance. - Milton Beychok 02:03, 16 February 2008 (CST)

Done. I've had in the back of my mind to create a really nice 3-D image of that, but am not sure I will find the time but hope to. If you have a really large version of that image, send it to me by email so I don't have to strain as much should I find time to give it a go. You are a pretty amazin' fellow, by the way.  :-) Stephen Ewen 02:11, 16 February 2008 (CST)

Stephen, thanks for being so prompt. That image is 311 x 471px and if my 85-year old eyes can see it easily, your eyes should have no problem. In any event, the image as it now stands is perfectly adequate. Thanks again, - Milton Beychok 12:36, 16 February 2008 (CST)

Symbols image

Hey Stephen. There was a discussion about this on Wikipedia. Apparently the symbols are considered public domain because the symbols have existed for some considerable centuries before they were reused by members of Led Zeppelin. The exact authorship is unknown. Meg Ireland 16:48, 17 February 2008 (CST)

Well, look at it from two angles. Angle one: let's assume the individual symbols are PD. However, in that combination, a derivative work of PD materials, they may be trademarked, just as is the combination of symbols that make up "Led Zeppelin" (each letter of that name is PD, no?). Angle two, let's assume the individual characters are not copyrightable. That still does not mean the combination, the derivative work, is not copyrightable.

Anyone can take public domain materials and create a derivative work from them, and that work is copyrightable if it has sufficient originality. The severable PD items would remain PD, but not the creative derivative work that uses them. Which is the case here? Beats me! And I don't think its worth researching and asking Atlantic. Hence, I don't think it wise to assert it as "public domain".

I added some more clarifications in the notes section of the image.

Stephen Ewen 19:12, 17 February 2008 (CST)

Would appreciate your comments

Stephen, if you have the time or the inclination, please take a look at the list of articles created on my user page. Am I overdoing it? Or does CZ think "the more, the merrier"? I would appreciate any comments you care to offer. - Milton Beychok 00:16, 18 February 2008 (CST)

Have a ball, Milton. Stephen Ewen 00:20, 18 February 2008 (CST)

Time cover

I see that Prof. Jensen has put a Time cover into the 2008 Presidential article with a justification that reads: "fair use Category Five: Book, periodical, and disc covers, and promotional posters, comic strips, editorial cartoons, and closely similar". (http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/2008_United_States_presidential_election) I wasn't aware that CZ had authorized this sort of usage. I'm all for it, of course, as I have a bunch of Time covers that I would like to use in some of the articles I've worked on. As I recall, some time ago you nixed my use of a Time cover until we tried to get authorization from Time mag. They sent us an email saying we could use it for $1000 or some such. You resent an explanation and, I think, we never got a reply. So, what is your take on the present use? Hayford Peirce 10:20, 18 February 2008 (CST)

Jumping the gun, is he? See CZ:Proposals/Non-comprehensive_fair_use_policy. Stephen Ewen 13:04, 18 February 2008 (CST)

I dunno. You tell *me* -- I've got a bunch of Time covers just waiting to be used.... Hayford Peirce 13:10, 18 February 2008 (CST)

If it were me, I'd go get after him for jumping the gun. Stephen Ewen 13:18, 18 February 2008 (CST)

I'm just an innocent bystander seeking elucidation.... Hayford Peirce 13:25, 18 February 2008 (CST)

Stephen, I too would appreciate knowing whether I may use magazine and/or book cover images in articles, without seeking authorization from publisher. Also: If I request permission for a scientific journal article or book illustration, can I offer that it cannot be re-used by others but will only be used for the article specified. And if so, how do I protect the illustration from re-use in an otherwise CC-by-sa article? --Anthony.Sebastian 14:06, 18 February 2008 (CST)

See CZ:Proposals/Non-comprehensive_fair_use_policy. On the other matter, check out CZ:Upload-Wizard, the section "From a copyright holder who has given me written permission to use his or her work". Maybe test it out by uploading . Things get really well labeled to avoid CC-by-sa confusion there.  :-) Stephen Ewen 14:34, 18 February 2008 (CST)

Re Life/Draft

Stephen, thanks for tidying up the images in Life/Draft. Gareth Leng happy with my responses to his long list of critiques and prepared to approve replacing Life with the draft version (see http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Talk:Life/Draft#Thanks_Anthony). I've asked Chris Day to set up the draft version for approval if he agrees with Gareth. If so, will you look in and consider adding your approval. Thanks. --Anthony.Sebastian 13:55, 18 February 2008 (CST)

I can look in and add my encouragement as an author. :-) Stephen Ewen 13:57, 18 February 2008 (CST)

CZ:Recipe

Please have a look at: CZ:Proposals/Ad_hoc (CZ:Proposals/How_should_we_classify_and_index_recipes?) and please give your comments. Today is supposed to be the last day before it goes to the next step. However, there hasn't been any discussions on it. What do I do next? Supten Sarbadhikari 02:43, 19 February 2008 (CST)

Supten, you might use discretion and increase the period for length of discussion. At the time that proposal was initially made, no one really knew how to work the system, least of all the proposer. A lot still aren't sure. :-) Stephen Ewen 02:48, 19 February 2008 (CST)

Second. Definitely. That's only fair. That was one of the very first proposals, and I for one still don't have my head completely around this. Aleta Curry 14:44, 19 February 2008 (CST)

Hobbies

"My hobbies are...", or, "I enjoy da-da-da and ta-ta-ta as hobbies..." or "As a hobby, I do this." ;) --Robert W King 15:10, 19 February 2008 (CST)

Driving manual

Steve, why don't you propose (and drive) another proposal on Driving proposals? :-) Supten Sarbadhikari 01:06, 20 February 2008 (CST)