Talk:Racism in Australia

Bias?

Isn't it a bit biased to define restrictive immigration policies as racism? Peter Jackson 10:08, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

It's unusual, but not necessarily biased. In reality, all countries' immigration policies either show or have shown clear racial preferences/exclusions and can accurately be described as racist. The problem is that all of the CZ articles on immigration policy should reflect this understanding, and it should not appear only in this article. Martin Baldwin-Edwards 10:55, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

All countries discriminate between citizens and foreigners. This necessarily involves indirect racial discrimination. So I can't see what difference immigration policy makes. Peter Jackson 11:17, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

This is a request, recognizing that I can't write the relevant article(s) because it isn't within my expertise. Might I suggest that the articles on race and racism reflect this usage, and be wikilinked to this one, and back, with Related Articles coverage? These are critical political and sociological articles and should be accelerated to Approval. Howard C. Berkowitz 11:51, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

Well, I think it's more that the link needs to be the other way around, that immigration articles link to the Race article. The Race articles needs to be much expanded, and perhaps could link to others: its gestation was so painful and controversial that I stopped work on it at its current stage. Peter: we are not talking about indirect racial discrimination, but direct. Look at the history of the USA, and its opposition to the Chinese, the Irish, etc etc. Nowadays, the political dynamics of the US are more complex, and the discrimination less overt and less extensive -- indirect, too. Other countries still have direct discrimination that is analogous to the historical case of the USA. Martin Baldwin-Edwards 12:40, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

The point I was trying to make was that we shouldn't be suggesting that any restrictive immigration policy is by definition racist. I dare say you remember decades ago when the LSE students' union general meeting adopted just this definition in its "no platform for racists" policy. The entire union executive, from Conservative to Communist, agreed to enforce the policy against Sir Keith Joseph in order to get publicity against it. The fact is that nearly everyone believes in some sort of immigration restrictions. What would our conscience in RationalWiki have to say if we defined most of our own citizens as racist? Peter Jackson 10:12, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

I'd go further and suggest that "racism" is a value judgment word and should not be used as a factual one. Peter Jackson 10:13, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

No, it is a scientifically accepted term for systematic racial discrimination. These need articles on CZ, but given the hoohah we had with the Race article, I am not enthusiastic to start any. Martin Baldwin-Edwards 13:40, 7 April 2011 (UTC)