Talk:Pain

I think the idea of having a lead article "Pain" which stands independantly, yet links into all the subjects you mention is brilliant. Why don't you start writing "Pain" as an article. I am not foresighted enough to see all the links, but I do know that there are several of us active on the wiki that are flexible and collegial and can, hopefully, collaborate on such a spectrum of articles. I like to think of Citizendium as primarily focused for the user- and what I love about your "Pain1" is that it introduces the complexity of the subject in, to fall back on a cliche- a very "user friendly" manner. I do not have the focus at the moment to go through in detail, but my general impression is extremely favorable. I would be honored to help author once you start the article. Thanks for showing this to me. Nancy Nancy Sculerati MD 18:54, 9 February 2007 (CST)

Pain in infants and children

I would appreciate including this topic. I have been beside myself too many times battling the fixed idea of many people that somebody too young to verbally complain 'feels no pain'. Nancy Sculerati MD 08:00, 10 February 2007 (CST)

Now in Main article space

My own idea is that of a "cycle" of articles, integrated yet each one stand-alone, so that the reader may over time get an overview of the importance of the subject to humans. One would like all the add-ons that persons think should be there recorded somewhere. At present this is at the end of the article, but a "topic suggestion" sub-page may work better. I see the Category tags don't work, so I will just delete the lot (except CZ live, of course :-))- I do not think they help much anyway. I would rather ask at the specific workgroups (e.g. philosophy, healing arts) if there are persons with an interest in contributing. --Christo Muller 12:56, 12 February 2007 (CST)

I think you've nade a really lovely start. If I may I'd suggest that the article could benefit from a few engaging illustrative examples, in other words I'd look, for this "gateway" article, to highlighting just a few things that make this such an interesting and important (and intriguing) topic, and which might be linked to illustrations. 1) Phantom limb pain 2) The ability to overcome extreme pain in extreme circumstances (- there are many remarkable examples of this, including in citations for valor) 3) Syndome of insensitivity to pain is sad and remarkable, and could be expanded on to stress the important adaptive function of pain. 4) The gate theory of pain? Gareth Leng 07:56, 22 February 2007 (CST)

Yes, short examples and illustrations would fit in, specifically to whet the appetite (if that is appropriate to the topic:)) for the linked articles. See what I wrote to Nancy about her comment on hereditary insensitivity to pain, below. My thought would be to mention that specifically when one writes about nociception physiology, and rather remove it from this one. The problem is that we do not know whether these persons cannot feel pain, we know only that they do not have the ability to detect tissue damage. --Christo Muller (Talk) 15:33, 22 February 2007 (CST)

meanings of pain

When you talk about the few individuals who don't feel pain, it highlights a choice that I think has to be made in this article- and that is "pain" as opposed to other (painful :-)) forms of discomfort. I am aware that they are all related, but-for example, whereas somebody with Familial Dysutonomia does not feel pain, they do still experience discomfort in other ways. I'm not sure I understand the focus.I mean- nobody is born unable to feel any type of pain including emotional anguish unless they are so low functioning to be essentially brain dead. Nancy Sculerati MD 09:04, 22 February 2007 (CST)

Well, Christo, now that I have read through, I have to say that this is pretty wonderful. Nancy Sculerati MD 10:19, 22 February 2007 (CST)

Thanks Nancy. I agree with your assessment of "do not feel pain" - all the HSAN types show defects of nociception, but that does not say that that the person affected cannot "hurt in the brain" (for the moment I forget the quote about "pain mainly in the brain", there is one that is a take on "rain in Spain" somewhere). I've not seen a study of what these persons really do feel, emotion-wise, apart from not responding normally to standard noxious stimuli during clinical neurological assessment. Someone will no doubt sometime do an fMRI or SPECT study to see if their brains light up with hurt the way the rest of ours do (probably the Riley-Day kids, I'd guess). The sentence is not necessary for the article, and does introduce a subject which may be discussed more profitably in an article on nociception (possibly to illustrate the value of nociception). --Christo Muller (Talk) 15:06, 22 February 2007 (CST)

OK, got it, it is Dennis C. Turk (Psychologist), John and Emma Bonica Professor of Anesthesiology and Pain Research at the University of Washington School of Medicine in Seattle Washington: "The reign of pain is mainly in the brain". Now I have to find the original publication of that - I think it was the title of a lecture. --Christo Muller (Talk) 15:16, 22 February 2007 (CST)

In my practice (I am no longer active) we were a center for "Riley Day kids", 300 were followed, I operated (for various raeasons) on about a dozen, got to know others in consultation (some were adults). Just an aside, I guess. Nancy Oh, now I remember, I'd say most were emotionally fine. When they get upset- either physically off or worried or even a little scared, a blood pressure of 400/200 is what happens, along with reflexive breathholding to cyanosis with seizures. And then, it's ok. That's a routine office visit with ear cleaning. But it's not like there is no fear or psychic pain. Lots of smart good, "normal" people have that. Nancy Sculerati MD 15:26, 22 February 2007 (CST)