File talk:MOS 6502.jpg

Image copyright

note: see here for the image in question on Wikimedia commons, and here for my original citation of this image.

I don't see what the problem was with the way I cited this image's copyright. I clearly stated this file was uploaded originally to Wikimedia commons, and that it was licensed under the GFDL 1.2. The person who uploaded this file explicitly stated that images uploaded to Wikimedia commons were under this license. Why would I have had to go find this image somewhere else on the web and make another statement about his licensing conditions? He released the file under the GFDL on Wikimedia. If, for example he released the image into the public domain and then elsewhere on his personal site he had a different license, he still released that other image into the public domain --Eric M Gearhart 03:45, 12 April 2007 (CDT)

The first place we have to start is that you are simply incorrect in stating "If, for example he released the image into the public domain and then elsewhere on his personal site he had a different license, he still released that other image into the public domain". This is simply not true. An image Z cannot be licensed as X at Y and licensed as T at P. So, for example, I cannot release an image under a creative commons license in 2002 and then release it as a fully copyrighted all rights reserved image in 2003. I have already legally given up my rights in 2002 by my act of releasing as a CC at that time. HOWEVER, I can take it the other way. I can give up more rights to an image but I cannot take them back. And some licenses allow me some leeway on case-by-case bases.

The second place we have to start out is in the assumption that a great, great many images uploaded to WP and the WM Commons have simply fraudulent copyright data. Have a look at just the ones WP is wondering about, one of those "deep recesses" of WP that not many people even know about. This fraud is facilitated easily because "CrazyDude" or some other pseudonymous uploader lacks fear of being found out. I am certainly not surprised.

The third place we have to start out at is that images uploaded there are not actually very "free" because of what I just mentioned, and also because of the fact that real re-users of the images cannot safely use them unless they can verify the status of the image with a real-named person. You will not find a magazine, for example, or any reputable publication, using the free images uploaded there unless' they can connect them to a real person going by their real name. CZ basically follows that model but still does not take it as far. A real name we can verify is the only legally safe thing to do beyond outright barring all images from a tainted source.

So that is some background. In short, the question is "who is he?" And we don't just "Assume Good Faith". Because it is naive to do so, even legally dangerous.

The image at WM Commons says the photographer is "Dirk Oppelt" and cites the source of the image as http://www.cpu-collection.de/?l0=i&i=1944. HOWEVER, that image page says the image is copyrighted, which is contradicted by BOTH the supposed release under the GFDL some text placed elsewhere at his site. So the image has three contradictory statements about its copyright status. Have a look. That is a huge red flag for fraud.

Another red flag is in the history of the image -- its uploader -- a pseudonymous person by "Morkork", saying a real-named person took the photo whose website says the image is not GFDL. That's another red flag for fraud, and still another is the lack of a permissions page connected to the image's talk that might clear things up.

So it requires investigation.

At Morkork's user talk page, we find that a real-named admin brought up the same basic issue I just described. Check it out. So after being confronted with the matter, "Morkork" says he changed the licensing info for that image, which is viewable here underneath his real-name, Dirk Oppelt. In other words, he has one time retained many rights to the image, and at a later time gave them up, the day he uploaded it to WM Commons under the GFDL. And he then says so at his webcite.

In this case, piecing all this together was possible. Regrettably, this is the sort of stuff we must often do with images from WP and the Commons. To me, it is a sad commentary on WP ever having created such an anonymous system in the first place. Contrary to popular belief, a great many of those images are not really "free" after all. They are bound up behind cloaks of anonymity under which one can far too often find fraud. So we have to be careful. We have to follow this two-pronged test.

Stephen Ewen 04:30, 12 April 2007 (CDT)

Good god I had no idea the history of this image. The problem stems from me making a basic assumption - that "Dirk Oppelt" was the original uploader of this image to Wikimedia.
Jeez it'd be easier to just buy an NES and open it up and take a picture of the 6502 inside. I suppose from now on unless I can track the "lineage" of a picture from Wikimedia commons I won't upload it here. Hmph. That's not cool. --Eric M Gearhart 05:13, 12 April 2007 (CDT)

Well, it only takes a few minutes - after a while. :-) And generally, those that are okay are okay pretty much right away. Stephen Ewen 12:39, 12 April 2007 (CDT)

Another thing. What's not cool is the fact that so many images at Wikimedia Commons are problematic for the reasons I described above. No one will have these problems from images they take from CZ. That is cool. Stephen Ewen 15:32, 14 April 2007 (CDT)

See my user page under the "Any doubt of the necessity of this project" section for a sound agreement there :) --Eric M Gearhart