CZ Talk:Election July-August 2013/Referenda/8

"Western order, e.g. family name last"

In fact there's a widespread Iberian practice of the penultimate name's being the main surname, and Hungarians, usually considered Western these days, have surname first like Far Easterners. Suggest "English-language order" instead. Peter Jackson 10:48, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

Peter, good point, but I believe covered by qualification in last clause of sentence. Anthony.Sebastian 22:33, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

Become an author first

Just what does this phrase mean? Become an author before you have an account - unlikely. Before an author holds any official office? Maybe. Can this be clarified? John R. Brews 14:41, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

Hi John. I'm not sure where you got, "Become an author before you have an account". We're suggesting that new persons requesting Editor status be registered as author first, to get them started first, before vetting them for Editor status. We want to minimize delays creating an account for them.

Am I misunderstanding your question? Anthony.Sebastian 17:35, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

Hi Anthony. Maybe I'm getting old. In fact, no doubt about it. However, how on Earth can one imagine someone who is not an author being able to request a position as Editor? Isn't one automatically an author the second you sign up, regardless of whether you actually author anything? So the requirement that you be an author is just unavoidable for anyone requesting to be an Editor?

Apparently I've got something mixed up here. John R. Brews 04:37, 26 July 2013 (UTC)

The issue Anthony's addressing is whether someone joins CZ immediately as an Editor, or whether they join as an ordinary author with possible Editor status later, like you. Peter Jackson 08:38, 26 July 2013 (UTC)

Yes, the problem is that there are two queues of applicants - those who apply as an Author, and those who apply from the outset as an Editor (and therefore also as an Author). For the latter group, account registration takes much longer because an Editorial Personnel Administrator (EPA) is supposed to approve them as an Editor at the same time as checking out their identity (which is all they need to do for Authors). So it's actually more difficult to get experts into here. When I started approving accounts as an administrator (not an EPA) a little while ago, I worked around this by switching the Editor applications to Author, signing them up, and then telling them that they're an Author and can get started as such, until someone approves their Editorship as well. But technically new would-be Editors are supposed to sit outside until the EPA is happy about both their identity and their expertise.

On top of all this, there is a problem with user rights supplied by the software. Only people in the EPA user group can actually see the new applications to join us in full. Administrators ('sysops') can see most of them, but not the workgroups the applicant checks or their IP address. So I've been approving accounts without that information. (The EPA group, meanwhile, doesn't have sysop or bureaucrat privileges, so if they screw up and create the wrong pages or a new user instantly starts vandalising, someone with those rights would also have to get involved. The only power being in that group gives you is the ability to see new applications, including IPs.) EPAs are supposed to approve applications of both Authors and Editors, but you shouldn't have to be an EPA to let a new Author in, and you don't really need extra user rights to approve an Editorship if someone sends you the evidence (Milt is listed as an EPA but doesn't have those software rights; Joe has EPA rights but hasn't been active for some time.)

It would be better if all sysops could have the EPA user rights in full and the EPA user group (but not EPAs themselves) could be replaced with something like 'Application Reviewers', i.e. anyone tasked with reviewing applications. Actual EPAs wouldn't need any special user rights at all as all they have to do is add Editor categories to user pages after reviewing any evidence, which could simply be sent to them by the Account Approver or the applicant themselves after they have initially joined as an Author. John Stephenson 00:46, 27 July 2013 (UTC)